botto 

yeah, just a giant tcr advanced with an integrated seatpost.

jit5

Yup

merlinextraligh

Out of curiousity, what was on the list, and what did you get?

And by the way, I'm not touting my bike as the be all end all. However I do think some people discount it unfairly because of the name. Which is fine, because that's part of what makes it a value.

branman1986

nobody likes a bike snob...

jit5

On the list were the Cerevlo R3, LOOK 585, Time VXR, and Ridley Damocles.

Got the 585.

I saw the prices for the 2007 Giant framesets and I wouldn't say value was part of the equation this year.

botto 

congratulations. you've just made the most asinine series of posts in one thread for january 2007. your mother will be proud.

merlinextraligh

When it gets to the top end, I think it gets very hard to find much objective difference in bikes. However, I think you'd be hard pressed to come up with any objective reason why a TCR Team Advanced wouldn't be in the same league as each of the bikes you list. See this summary of various 2006 Pro Tour team bikes including the Look 585. https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2006/probikes/

And by the way you'd be hard pressed to bulid up a Look 585, with comparable componets, even after its been superceded by the 595, for what I paid for my Giant. An identically equipped (except obviously the seat post) from Wrench Science would have cost me $350 more. (obviously there may be some better mail order deals, but Wrench Science has 585's and a convenient configuration tool)

merckxxx

the race that you described is all to familiar to me..... The thing that seems to happen in 4-5 races (at least around here).. is that a few riders (that usually know each other) will get together and go to the front.. then when they get the whole group together behind them .. (usually at the start of a climb or right before they go into a turn.). these few riders will spread out across the road and all hit their brakes at the same time..(this is a very slight manuver but it creates havoc behind them) this causes the whole field to jam up into each other.. and screws up the whole field.. the few who do this then jump on the gas and go around the cormer.. or up the hill leaving everyone else in a pile.. or thier momentum... gone.. and pretty much screwed.. from a spectators standpoint it looks like the few have gotten a gap on the field but in reality they havent they have performed a manuver that is really dangerous.. this doesnt usually happen in the stronger firelds (cat 3 and up) because all the riders are so much more experienced they can push past that kind of thing.. the cat 4-5's that do this kind of thing are the scum of the earth... they cant win a race straight up so they pull that kind of crap..

I got DQ'd once cause a group did this a crit I was in... and it caused a pileup I went down in.. and the next week in a road race I saw the same 4 guys go to the front... and as we were turning on to a very narrow road that went up at 6% for about a mile.. I wacthed them looking at each other ( I suspected they were getting ready to pull that same stunt again).. (I was right on their wheel.). and sure enough about 100 feet into the hill they all four jammed across the road and I heard the jerk on the far left say "now" and they all hit their brakes I had dropped a gear and instead of hitting my brakes i went through them.. I hit one of them pretty hard as I went by.. and the race official.. DQ'd me..

I lost a front wheel to one of these stunts.. and have watched more than a few riders eat it.. because iof this.... I am really all about beatin the **** out of fools that race this way,,,

Cat4's and 5's dont usually win any money anyway ..so what the hell are they trying to prove?? its sad for newbies.. and people trying to get in this sport... but that pretty much is the way it is..

DrPete 

Uh, not a single one of those models would fall into the "value" category.

jit5

Agreed.

What I said was that the Giant framesets were not value priced for 2007 as they have been previously.

MDcatV

What!?! are these riders on the same team? are you sure you're interpreting what is going on correctly? I find it nearly impossible to believe that 1) you could convince 4 or 5 riders that this was a good idea; 2) they could actually orchestrate this in a race situation; 3) that it would work; 4) that they wouldnt get a either a serious butt kicking or warned and DQd. Blocking is one thing; being "uncooperative" is another; but what you're describing is malicious, dangerous, and needs to be corrected at an official level. I wouldnt advocate confrontation, but if its the same folks doing this I'd report their names, #s, and specifically what they are doing to the officials so that an unsafe practice can be stopped. Also, if you have a district list server you can post to, call them and they're team out on it, public scorn has a way of righting these kinds of issues. But, if you do this, be sure that what you're perceiving is what is occurring otherwise you'll look like the horses business end.

Of course, a practical solution is dont let them get to the front of the race to begin with, that way even if things get blocked up, you're beyond the pinch point in a breakaway you didnt have to attack to initiate.

merckxxx

oh make no mistake it was intentional and it was malicious... it is a cat 4/5 thing... and you are right it can't happen in any race where the people understand or have any experience with what is going on... (Ie Cat 3 or better)... It was like they had practiced it.. and thought it was a cool way to get a gap...on the field..they were in the same club.. they did it over a period of several races that I was in and they caused several people (novice racers) a lot of problems.. The thing was when I got DQ'd I brought it up.. and the officials had heard the same thing... from others.. the officials didnt see them.. but they saw me bowling ball em to the ditch... .. I had enough.. I didnt race for a few weeks after that and when I did the fools didnt pull the stunt (I told the officials before the race I would be watching for the same crap).....

This happend several years ago... but when the guy described the incident above it sounded just like the problems I had.. I started racing kind of late in life I was 35 when I was a cat5 riding in the event i described and the group that pulled this crap were all 5's and 4's who rode together (from another town).. they were all in there teens.. they wre all acting like they were pro's and had huge ego's (RACING AS CAT'5s!!!!!) you cant fix stupid...