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Why it's about the Results

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Old 02-10-07, 11:26 AM
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El Diablo Rojo
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Why it's about the Results

Today I went out on our local fast training ride (read unofficial race) and got shelled. I felt like crap when I woke up this morning and should have stayed in bed but I went anyway. The ride was it's normal brutal self and I was in the mix for about 35 min, but when it was time to man up I popped. Here is where the title of this thread comes in. I get home and download my PT and virtually every number is either a personal best or withing 5w of my personal best. Yet in the end I was OTB and sucking wind. If I were to just look at the graphs it would look like I had a successful ride but in the end I just couldn't hang today.
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Old 02-10-07, 11:59 AM
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What??? You mean there are other things involved in a rider's performance besides wattage??!!

This whole line of thinking is for wussy.
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Old 02-10-07, 12:12 PM
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There is no doubt that today, I was wussy!
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Old 02-10-07, 12:17 PM
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Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug...




(or the wussy)
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Old 02-10-07, 01:29 PM
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It's ok. I got shelled by Coach Troy today.
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Old 02-10-07, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
If I were to just look at the graphs it would look like I had a successful ride but in the end I just couldn't hang today.
If it was a training ride and not a race, the definition of success is how well you accomplished your training goals. If it was a race, the definition of success is how you placed. To tell the difference, look to see if you and everyone else you're riding with has a number on their jersey; if so it's a race, if not, it's a training ride. There are no results in a training ride.
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Old 02-10-07, 03:17 PM
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You know, EDR, it hasn't been too long since I shared this wisdom with you, but I feel it bears repeating.

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Old 02-10-07, 03:29 PM
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I get the whole "all that matters is the results" thing. I really do.

But, my enjoyment of racing has a lot more to do with personal progress than it does to do with winning or placing in a race. Winning is one of the *many* sweet fruits of the labor, but it's certainly not the most important thing to me.

In fact, how you place in a race is not even the best judge of competence because there are lots of things that are beyond your control in a race and your role for a particular race may not be to win but rather to help a teammate.

--Steve
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Old 02-10-07, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zimbo
I get the whole "all that matters is the results" thing. I really do.

But, my enjoyment of racing has a lot more to do with personal progress than it does to do with winning or placing in a race. Winning is one of the *many* sweet fruits of the labor, but it's certainly not the most important thing to me.

In fact, how you place in a race is not even the best judge of competence because there are lots of things that are beyond your control in a race and your role for a particular race may not be to win but rather to help a teammate.

--Steve
Lord knows if it were about winning for me I would've quit after about 2 races. So the goal isn't necessarily to win every race, but just to come back stronger each time, and keep doing better as measured against your fellow racers.
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Old 02-10-07, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
Today I went out on our local fast training ride (read unofficial race) and got shelled. I felt like crap when I woke up this morning and should have stayed in bed but I went anyway. The ride was it's normal brutal self and I was in the mix for about 35 min, but when it was time to man up I popped. Here is where the title of this thread comes in. I get home and download my PT and virtually every number is either a personal best or withing 5w of my personal best. Yet in the end I was OTB and sucking wind. If I were to just look at the graphs it would look like I had a successful ride but in the end I just couldn't hang today.
Who are you riding with EDR? The Discovery boys?
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Old 02-10-07, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
If it was a training ride and not a race, the definition of success is how well you accomplished your training goals. If it was a race, the definition of success is how you placed. To tell the difference, look to see if you and everyone else you're riding with has a number on their jersey; if so it's a race, if not, it's a training ride. There are no results in a training ride.
Wow you really are smart feller. As usual you missed the point. There are a few BFer's here that like post all these great training numbers and yet have no race results to show for it. As Zimbo said it's not only about the placing. Last weekend I scored a very competitive 3rd in my first crit since 1992. Although that was my best result it was by far not my best race. That was last year at Ft Davis when flatted and had to wait 3 minute for a new wheel. I chased the pack for over 8 miles solo and still finished 12th. That was my best performance. Like 99% of the guys who show up for this ride I treat it like a race. Ask anyone who rolls out once we hit Southwest Parkway, it's on. So again to summerize. By the numbers I had a great day on the bike. How I felt and how badly I performed was not so hot.
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Old 02-10-07, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by zimbo
I get the whole "all that matters is the results" thing. I really do.

But, my enjoyment of racing has a lot more to do with personal progress than it does to do with winning or placing in a race. Winning is one of the *many* sweet fruits of the labor, but it's certainly not the most important thing to me.

In fact, how you place in a race is not even the best judge of competence because there are lots of things that are beyond your control in a race and your role for a particular race may not be to win but rather to help a teammate.

--Steve
Absolute agree. My best performance in a race only netted me 12th. Last weekends 3rd didn't even come close to how well I rode to that 12th place.
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Old 02-10-07, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Who are you riding with EDR? The Discovery boys?

Naw they were smart enough to leave when it was only in the low 40's. Now it's in low 30's. I know I know compared to your neck of the woods that balmy, but for this SoCal native it's freak'n cold!!!!!
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Old 02-10-07, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
Wow you really are smart feller. As usual you missed the point. There are a few BFer's here that like post all these great training numbers and yet have no race results to show for it. As Zimbo said it's not only about the placing. Last weekend I scored a very competitive 3rd in my first crit since 1992. Although that was my best result it was by far not my best race. That was last year at Ft Davis when flatted and had to wait 3 minute for a new wheel. I chased the pack for over 8 miles solo and still finished 12th. That was my best performance. Like 99% of the guys who show up for this ride I treat it like a race. Ask anyone who rolls out once we hit Southwest Parkway, it's on. So again to summerize. By the numbers I had a great day on the bike. How I felt and how badly I performed was not so hot.
I guess I'm a little slow but I think I understand now. Results in competition are not the be all and end all of judging success, but there is some other undocumented qualitative evaluation that supersedes results. Some people (the good ones) use a system of evaluation that agrees with yours. So that say chasing solo to finish twelfth is in fact better than finishing third. Others use a different non-results based system, such as evaluating performance through power; but they are all wrong. On top of this is there is a continuum of events that ranges from actual competitions where everyone agrees to a set of rules and defined courses through group rides where everyone may have different intentions, to the other extreme of solo rides - how are you placing in those? I do think I have a clear picture of what your saying now.
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Old 02-10-07, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle
I guess I'm a little slow but I think I understand now. Results in competition are not the be all and end all of judging success, but there is some other undocumented qualitative evaluation that supersedes results. Some people (the good ones) use a system of evaluation that agrees with yours. So that say chasing solo to finish twelfth is in fact better than finishing third. Others use a different non-results based system, such as evaluating performance through power; but they are all wrong. On top of this is there is a continuum of events that ranges from actual competitions where everyone agrees to a set of rules and defined courses through group rides where everyone may have different intentions, to the other extreme of solo rides - how are you placing in those? I do think I have a clear picture of what your saying now.
*gives Vulcan sign*



Anyway, back to the topic: I can understand your frustration. Today I woke up and my nose was a bit plugged. It was kind of an "oh oh" moment. But it's saturday and I always man up for the groupie. So I went out, and I could tell after the first sprint that it wasn't my day. I did manage to cling for the whole ride but at the end of it I was very frustrated and down. I know that I will rebound but, such as it is when expectations and reality fail to merge, I usually feel a bit hollow afterward.

If it's any consolation, though, congrats on the PB on your wattage. Along with that crit result, it shows you are doing the right things with your training.
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Old 02-10-07, 05:17 PM
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Here's a little pick-me-up for you...


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Old 02-10-07, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by frischtr
Here's a little pick-me-up for you...



That is the best calender in the world. BTW thanks I feel much better now
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Old 02-10-07, 06:27 PM
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I get the R600 Dura Ace reference, but it really is nice to have the data to correlate to the results.

Last week finished 5th in a crit. (screwed up letting the winning break get away, but set up the sprint pretty well to take the field sprint).

Today's crit in Sanford, felt fairly lously all day. Got too far back and got caught behind a wreck just as I was begining to move up with 2 laps to go.

I would have sworn today's race was much harder, and explained why I was not keeping my position up front.

Just downloaded the data: Last week averaged 281 watts,normalized power 307.

This week (perceived harder) averaged 250 watts, normalized power 267.

So the data tells me Ijust didn't have it today, and after a 3week pretty hard period with 3 races I can adjust.

The results are about fitness, strategy, tactics, and luck. You need all 4.
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Old 02-10-07, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
The results are about fitness, strategy, tactics, and luck. You need all 4.
Stop telling lies.

Racing is about power meters, carbon wheels and aero bits. Geez.
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Old 02-10-07, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Stop telling lies.

Racing is about power meters, carbon wheels and aero bits. Geez.

Well then I've just about got it covered!

Actually I think the "4" is what I love about this sport. You not only have to be fit but you have think, and be aware of what's happening. You have to be lucky, being in the right move at the right time, or being right place when the crash happens so you miss it. It's not just about being strong, last Sunday the strongest person in our field was some kid riding for UT. He proved lap after lap, pulling everyone along and attacking like mad. Of course when it came time to lay it down he was cooked, but man that kids is strong.
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Old 02-10-07, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus
Stop telling lies.

Racing is about power meters, carbon wheels and aero bits. Geez.
Let us not forget the ceramic bearings, right EDR?
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Old 02-10-07, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NoRacer
Let us not forget the ceramic bearings, right EDR?
Why does everyone think I've bought ceramic bearings?
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Old 02-10-07, 07:15 PM
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Were you spending most of that time on the front?

Maybe they've just been eating their wheaties?
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Old 02-10-07, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo
He proved lap after lap, pulling everyone along and attacking like mad. Of course when it came time to lay it down he was cooked, but man that kids is strong.
If he was attacking like mad then I give him more kudos than if he simply did a steady effort at the front trying to ride people off his wheel in TT mode. If the guy knows he's not a sprinter and suspects he's got better than average steady-state power, he probably took the right approach even though it didn't work out.

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Old 02-10-07, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
Were you spending most of that time on the front?

Maybe they've just been eating their wheaties?
No I was mostly 3rd to 5th wheel, the two cat 1 studs on the front were just drillin' it. This was just a matter of blowing up and getting shelled. I rolled in with the second group but really even that was a struggle on the climb. All this post was about was how big numbers don't always equate to good results. Here I am layin' down some good solid numbers, numbers my coach would be happy to see if they weren't attached to my report, and yet I was not riding all that well. I guess I should have titled this thread "It's not about the Numbers'' instead.
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