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Poor mans power meter?

Old 02-27-07, 09:40 PM
  #1  
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Poor mans power meter?

There's a few threads about wattage and sprinting...

Is there any way to estimate wattage without an actual power meter? I just don't have the dollars to splash out on one...

Any ideas would be great.
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Old 02-27-07, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mezza
There's a few threads about wattage and sprinting...

Is there any way to estimate wattage without an actual power meter? I just don't have the dollars to splash out on one...

Any ideas would be great.
http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm

Beware. Soon you'll be riding along at 400 watts. When you're going that fast you're sort of like a semi. You can suck bypassers into your slipstream. Squirrels, cats, small dogs and road refuse will fly towards you like you're some sort of super-carbon magnet.

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Old 02-27-07, 09:49 PM
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lol

kreuzotter is good for cadence, but really tends to overestimate wattages. Analyticcycling.com seems much better, but the site hasn't bee accessible for me recently.
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Old 02-27-07, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
lol

kreuzotter is good for cadence, but really tends to overestimate wattages. Analyticcycling.com seems much better, but the site hasn't bee accessible for me recently.
Tried kreuzotter and apparently with my weight/height/speed etc I can apparently take a bike to 2000 watts, yeah, right. I'm sceptical... But still a rough guide.

I also couldn't get into analyticcycling.com. Oh well.

Thanks guys.
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Old 02-27-07, 10:02 PM
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I've used this one before, it seems to be a bit more accurate than kreuzotter, except that it doesn't even figure in different frontal areas for differently sized people. So take this one with a grain of salt as well.

http://w3.iac.net/~curta/bp/velocity/velocity.html
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Old 02-28-07, 12:12 AM
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hook you bike up to a 1400w microwave($39 at walmart) and make me some popcorn I think penguin just said he had the salt
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Old 02-28-07, 07:28 AM
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I think estimating power output with calculators doen't get you very far for most training purposes.

Training with a power meter has the beneift of regulating your effort more precisely, than alternatives such as a HRM.

Using calculators to extrapolate watts is not going to be very accurate, and I think you're better off just not worrying about power, and using more traditional methods, such as a HRM, cycle computer, perceived effort, and the ultimate measure, results.


And as far as sprinting, I don't know of any online calculator that takes into account the acceleration involved. A number will tell you the watts it takes to travel at say 34mph. I'm not aware of one that will tell you the maximum watts involved in sprinting from 15 to 34mph. In fact, you maximum watts in such an effort would vary with the length of time that the acceleration took, and I haven't seen any calculator with that sort of data input.
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Old 02-28-07, 08:13 AM
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Okay according to the calculator, (that snuff provided the link for), I am producing 370 watts and burning 1414 Kcal on my one hour morning ride. I may be mistaken but am I not ready for the TDF with these kind of numbers?

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Old 02-28-07, 08:21 AM
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^^^^ what bike did you select. Something off there, because road bike, hands on tops with a 1 percent grade and default weights gets 21.8 mph for me.

Also I doubt your ride is a consistent 1 percent up hill, which would change the calculations
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Old 02-28-07, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg200
Okay according to the calculator, (that snuff provided the link for), I am producing 370 watts and burning 1414 Kcal on my one hour morning ride. I may be mistaken but am I not ready for the TDF with these kind of numbers?

that's nowhere near pro output. you'd get shot out the back of the tdf with those numbers, but point taken =)
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Old 02-28-07, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jrennie
hook you bike up to a 1400w microwave($39 at walmart) and make me some popcorn I think penguin just said he had the salt
only one grain of salt though, so only pop one kernel of popcorn.
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Old 02-28-07, 09:26 AM
  #12  
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Just as an FYI I got my powertap standard complete with wheel for $375 used a year ago.

They aren't as expensive as you think if you opt for the low end. The power meter has been the BEST purchase towards improving my fitness I've ever made. They are absolutely and completely worth it provided you do some learning on training with power and put the time in to train correctly with it.
 
Old 02-28-07, 09:55 AM
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check out ibike, I'm not sure how good they are but they're pretty cost effective and turns out the coach is part of the team I just joined. Didn't even know it till today.
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Old 02-28-07, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
^^^^ what bike did you select. Something off there, because road bike, hands on tops with a 1 percent grade and default weights gets 21.8 mph for me.

Also I doubt your ride is a consistent 1 percent up hill, which would change the calculations
I selected road bike hands on tops and entered my average MPH for the ride, (18), which gave me the 375 watts.
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Old 02-28-07, 10:28 AM
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^^^^
Something's off because when I enter 18mph, road bike hands on top, default weight, its only 177 watts.
If you bump the rider weight to 200lbs, its still only 200 watts.
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Old 02-28-07, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by stea1thviper
that's nowhere near pro output. you'd get shot out the back of the tdf with those numbers, but point taken =)

Shot out the back? Of a peleton on the flats? Are you kidding me?

And there are plenty, PLENTY of pro's with an FTP of around 370.
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Old 02-28-07, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
^^^^
Something's off because when I enter 18mph, road bike hands on top, default weight, its only 177 watts.
If you bump the rider weight to 200lbs, its still only 200 watts.
You didn't fill in the same parameter values that he did:

Rider's Height = 75
Rider's Weight = 185
Air Temp = 40
Height Above Sea Level = 650
Slope of Road = 1
Wind Speed = 4
Pedaling Cadence = 100

[all others default]
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Old 02-28-07, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by NoRacer
You didn't fill in the same parameter values that he did:

Rider's Height = 75
Rider's Weight = 185
Air Temp = 40
Height Above Sea Level = 650
Slope of Road = 1
Wind Speed = 4
Pedaling Cadence = 100

[all others default]
NoRacer, I'm surprised you didn't bring up the iBike Pro. at $399 (can be had cheaper on sale, etc.) it could be a viable option. I guess it just depends on how "poor" of a "poor man's power meter" you're looking for.
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Old 02-28-07, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Greg200
I selected road bike hands on tops and entered my average MPH for the ride, (18), which gave me the 375 watts.
You should also enter your average slope. If you're doing 18mph up a 1% grade, 375W doesn't sound unreasonable.
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Old 02-28-07, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by recursive
You should also enter your average slope. If you're doing 18mph up a 1% grade, 375W doesn't sound unreasonable.
The problem is that if you want accurate results, you can't just enter 1%, even if that's the average for the ride. To make it meaningful, you'd have to enter the 4 minutes its 2% up, the 6 minutes its 4% down etc.

There are maybe 3 people who regularly contribute to this forum that can do 370watts for an hour in a full on TT. I sincerely doubt the OP is putting out 370 watts on the morning hour tool around. Hence something is either off in the calculator, the data input, or both.

Which take me back to my initial point, that while, watt calculators can be fun, and even give you an idea of where you need to get for a goal, you can't train off of them.
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Old 02-28-07, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Kent
Shot out the back? Of a peleton on the flats? Are you kidding me?

And there are plenty, PLENTY of pro's with an FTP of around 370.
were u at last week's ohio state collegiate crit? Greg Christiansen (the guy who solo breaked from the start and lapped the field) was pushing around 450 watts for the hour im guessing, since our guy (part of the 3 man chase) was pushing 400 and never got closer than 15 seconds. 370 isnt very impressive at all for a pro. my opinion.
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Old 02-28-07, 11:59 AM
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Let's re-hash the power data from Floyd Landis's TdF stage 17, arguably one of the greatest performances ever on a bike. Yes, it was a stage race, blah, blah, blah, but few would argue that Floyd wouldn't have smoked dude from the OSU crit.

Originally Posted by bicycling.com
- 5 hours 23 minutes and 36 seconds.

- Covering 200.5 kilometers (130 km alone in the wind).

- At a speed of 37.175 km/hr.

- Averaging 281 watts when moving for the whole ride and 318 watts over the last two hours.

- Averaging 324 watts while pedaling for the whole ride and 364 watts over the last 2 hours.

- At an average cadence of 89 rpm.

- Transferring 5,456 Kjoules of energy to his Cycleops PowerTap.

- Taking, no joke, a total of 70 water bottles (480 ml each) from the car to keep himself cool and hydrated.

- Attacking about a quarter of the way up the Col des Saisies for 30 seconds at 544 watts, which settled into a 5-minute peak of 451 watts, which continued for 10 minutes at an average of power of 431 watts, and left everyone in his dust after 30 minutes at an average power of 401 watts.
- Spending 13.2% of his time or 43 minutes coasting like a rocket on the descents and another 60% between 4 to 7 watts per kilogram of body weight (aka, the pain cave).

- Holding onto 373 watts over the Col de Joux-Plane.

- Hitting a max speed of 83.7 km/hr (51.9 mph) and flying like a Phoenix on his way to the most incredible moment in sports I have ever witnessed.
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Old 02-28-07, 12:03 PM
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sorry pete apples and oranges. we're talking about FT 1 hour power. 324 is closer to floyd's endurance power for that duration.
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Old 02-28-07, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stea1thviper
sorry pete apples and oranges. we're talking about FT 1 hour power. 324 is closer to floyd's endurance power for that duration.
His 30-minute average on a climb was 401W. Assuming that was a max effort, it would but his FT somewhere between 380 and 400W.
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Old 02-28-07, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
His 30-minute average on a climb was 401W. Assuming that was a max effort, it would but his FT somewhere between 380 and 400W.
sorry wrong again. you cannot assume that's his FT. this was part of a 5+ hour race. he was not hitting his highest FT numbers since he had to save energy for the rest of the race. it's more accurate for me to assume that Greg's FT was around 450 since he went solo for basically an hour and gave it everything he had.
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