Pictures of you suffering in a race (please credit photographer)
#9076
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Two from last season, both by Yvonne Lydick. First is with two to go at Elite Crit Nats. Second is a night crit in Chattanooga.
#9077
fuggitivo solitario
Thanks! I'm pretty happy with the new fit(s) this year. The hip angle is a bit narrow compared to how most riders are set up, but I still feel fine making power and definitely much more aero. My head and shoulders have been much lower compared to others in the pack, making me seem like a smaller rider even though I'm about average sized
Shoulda brought number glue. OTOH I hate the smell of Gu-Gone and dealing with the subsequent mess.
Yep, Rapha warmers. I forgot to order the team ones so I'm not fully matchy, oughta fix that soon (though with my luck I won't need them for the rest of the season once I order them)
Shoulda brought number glue. OTOH I hate the smell of Gu-Gone and dealing with the subsequent mess.
Yep, Rapha warmers. I forgot to order the team ones so I'm not fully matchy, oughta fix that soon (though with my luck I won't need them for the rest of the season once I order them)
I'm jelly of that fit. My "fit" looks pretty bad in pack photos. I'm guessing I have short legs so I end up with relatively higher bars, more hunched back, and too much leg movement up and down on 170 cranks. I'm thinkin I should get 165 or even shorter next time I get a chance. Can then raise saddle 5 mm, and lower bars accordingly, maybe 1 cm. Also then IAB would be easier, more air intake and less saddle nose skewering my nether-regions. This is all just guessing. But it sounds reasonable.
#9078
**** that
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I'm jelly of that fit. My "fit" looks pretty bad in pack photos. I'm guessing I have short legs so I end up with relatively higher bars, more hunched back, and too much leg movement up and down on 170 cranks. I'm thinkin I should get 165 or even shorter next time I get a chance. Can then raise saddle 5 mm, and lower bars accordingly, maybe 1 cm. Also then IAB would be easier, more air intake and less saddle nose skewering my nether-regions. This is all just guessing. But it sounds reasonable.
#9080
Senior Member
That's how it looks in photos. But my last bike was 56 and I went down to 54 cuz it was uncomfortable to reach for the bars with my knees coming too close to my chest. And the one time I got fit (for TT) I was told I'm (still) flexible, for a cyclist. I would tend to shift forward, even move the saddle forward to open up a bit so I went down a size. Now I still feel like I need to go down a size but I think it's just the cranks are too long. Also that time I got on my tiny junior teammates bike and couldn't reach the peddle at the bottom but he is many inches shorter than me.
#9081
**** that
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That's how it looks in real life too, is what I'm saying.
I think bending your elbows more would get you a lot closer to looking better on the bike. That plus a longer stem/top tube would get you out of the wind no doubt.
I think bending your elbows more would get you a lot closer to looking better on the bike. That plus a longer stem/top tube would get you out of the wind no doubt.
#9082
Nonsense
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@aaronmcd The aero is absolutely worth experimenting to find. The tweaks I have made this winter have done wonders and there has been no hit to power. Don't be afraid to play with seat position and stem length, just be sure to mark your old position before changing stuff.
You might crash less too cuz if you increase stem length and/or push your seat back there will be less weight on the handlebars
You might crash less too cuz if you increase stem length and/or push your seat back there will be less weight on the handlebars
#9083
Senior Member
Yeah I've played with seat position and stem. Seat vertical seems to fall into a happy place based on bottom of pedal stroke, and fore aft position is governed by reach, which I apparently don't have enough of. As I said above, I went down a size to decrease reach. But mattm is saying it looks like reach is too short and I agree, which is why I think cranks may be the thing to change since longer stem/top tube closes my hips too much or causes me to move saddle forward causing more weight too far forward. And perhaps, I speculate, shorter cranks may allow the whole top half to get more streamlined and it won't be all 100% governed by trying to open my hips enough. Oh and matt, contrary to Fudgys accurate analysis of my straight arms back when I began riding, by now, years later, I do bend my arms (at least when in the wind) but it takes me more arm bend than average to achieve less than average aero look. Check my saddle/bar drop, it's close to zero. Even IAB my chest is way above my hips. So, yeah, in a way I agree, longer reach may be great. But how to achieve it? I was guessing shorter cranks, which seems logical for one with shorter legs. I wanna be open to other (cheaper) options to open hip angle enough to gain reach, I just can't think of any.
#9084
Senior Member
How important is hip angle actually? I've got a much more closed off angle now and it hasn't seemed to hurt anything afaik
#9085
Senior Member
Here we go. From The Bump when I was off the front. Arms bent ~90, feels comfortable yet looks awkward and less than optimal aero.
https://katietruong.smugmug.com/2017-Races/2017-02-05-RKO-1-The-Bump-Circui/Wave-3/i-smm3tdN/A
https://katietruong.smugmug.com/2017-Races/2017-02-05-RKO-1-The-Bump-Circui/Wave-3/i-smm3tdN/A
#9086
Senior Member
Well maybe you are really flexible? If you can't actually lift your knees that far or if it takes extra energy fighting tight muscles to do so, it's obviously bad. I ain't as flexible as I used to be practicing gymnastics, but I still think I'm at least as flexible as your average cyclist!
#9088
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The general rule of thumb is saddle height should put your knee at about a 30 degree angle when at the bottom of your pedal stroke, while the setback (fore/aft) should position your knee over the pedal spindle when in the 3 o'clock position.
That is just a starting point, however, and you may find you want more/less extension of your leg or want you knee further in front of/behind the pedal spindle. For example, I like my saddle farther back, which enables me to better use my glutes in pedaling.
Once you have your saddle position set, you then worry about reach, and use stem length/angle to set the bars in a position most comfortable to you.
#9089
Senior Member
Well maybe you are really flexible? If you can't actually lift your knees that far or if it takes extra energy fighting tight muscles to do so, it's obviously bad. I ain't as flexible as I used to be practicing gymnastics, but I still think I'm at least as flexible as your average cyclist!
I'd try further back as well.
Originally Posted by topflightpro
For example, I like my saddle farther back, which enables me to better use my glutes in pedaling.
Might be best to wait until next season before making any radical changes though, as it did take me a while to get used to the new position. When I first tried it, I felt like I'd been put on a kids bike, since my knees were coming up so high, but after a few weeks of riding it, everything seemed normal again.
#9090
Nonsense
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Yeah I'm really not flexible, like on a really good day I can touch my ankles, but my position is now such that if I really wanted to I could knee myself in the chest while touching my forehead to my headset. Basically I just moved my seat aft until my lower back was straightened out and dropped it until I didn't feel pulling behind the knee. It took a few rounds of changes because the first couple of tweaks decompressed my spine which resulted in me moving the seat back even more after I got used to it. Up front I experimented until my elbows didn't flare when in the drops and IAB felt sustainable.
#9091
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I can get my finger tips pretty firmly onto the floor. But I also stretch about 30 min. every day to help improve flexibility and relieve stress on my knees and lower back.
My hip flexors, however, are not flexible at all. And sitting at a desk and riding a bike do not help. I spend a great deal of time trying to loosen and strengthen them. I can tie lots of back issues directly to those hip flexors.
My hip flexors, however, are not flexible at all. And sitting at a desk and riding a bike do not help. I spend a great deal of time trying to loosen and strengthen them. I can tie lots of back issues directly to those hip flexors.
#9092
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Definitely doing it again. My A race for the year.
#9093
Senior Member
with my teammates lined up in the second group
getting overtaken at the line by three guys after going (very) long in the sprint.
credit: fred from WSV emmen.
#9094
**** that
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@gerundium when I saw you posted in here I knew it would be some pics from a hard-man's race in Europe - you did not disappoint!
Thanks for making me feel week for complaining about racing in clear weather at 55f.
Thanks for making me feel week for complaining about racing in clear weather at 55f.
#9095
Senior Member
We are hard pressed to get 80 guys to show up to a big race in nice weather. A training race in crappy weather? About 20 showed up to one in december, all categories combined.
#9096
Senior Member
@gerundium when I saw you posted in here I knew it would be some pics from a hard-man's race in Europe - you did not disappoint!
Thanks for making me feel week for complaining about racing in clear weather at 55f.
Thanks for making me feel week for complaining about racing in clear weather at 55f.
#9098
commu*ist spy