brianappleby

Here's a fun game. I put my power numbers on teh internets, and you guys tell me what I need to work on, relative to the other numbers. I have my ideas, but i was wondering what you thought.

thanks for playing,
B.

120min 284
60min 322
30min 352
10min 378
5min 403
1min 500

edit: these numbers are from a single race. My best 1 min and 30s power are 600 and 750 respectively, but I don't think it means as much when I'm fresh.

Snuffleupagus

kg=what?
5s=what?

brianappleby

5s power = i don't know because my program (not training peaks) has said 1000 exactly for the last few months. On this race it was 800W. The race had a 200M uphill finish, so I didn't really have a reason to go all out for 5 sec.

Weight is 180 lbs. 82Kg. But that shouldn't matter should it. I don't care how strong I am. I only want to get stronger.

slvoid

I would need to know the volume.
For example, your 800watts would be barely average for something like a 1 cubic ft. oven. But for one of those small 0.4-0.5 cu.ft personal units, it'll be more than enough to pop a bag of corn.

NomadVW 

You have to care how strong you are to get stronger.

You definitely have a power profile that slopes toward the longer distance riding. But getting stronger means what type of events you want to participate in. I ride mostly longer road races, so I train the longer range power. If you're racing crits consistently, it's time to start working on your weaker short range power.

recursive

Analysis: You would beat me in any TT.

grebletie

Is it just me, or does this game resemble what paid coaches are trained to do?

Honestly, though, we need more information. Qualitatively, how do you do in races? When are you feeling good, and what makes you feel bad? Have you read Racing and Training with a Powermeter?

Anyways, I'm wondering how much purchase one should give the power profile, given other data points. Consider that my power profile predicts good power on the long end, but poor power on the short end. But my best results so far have been in crits, where I would least expect it. It most likely has to do with my recovery ability.

Moral of the story is that there is more to the story than the the power profile, especially the profile from a single race.

stea1thviper

one thing ive learned from my (limited) racing experience, is it's not always how high your 1min or 5min power is, rather how many times u can hit those 1min and 5min numbers before popping

Snicklefritz

Yeah that makes sense. There are some people that are better able to handle repeated hard bouts compared with others. Any ideas what might be going on physiologically to explain this?

asgelle

Most likely higher functional threshold power, i.e., aerobic fitness. This means both that they don't go as deep into their anaerobic stores for the short intense efforts and that they recover faster when they do. Second choice, higher anaerobic work capacity, but since the differences aren't that great, and once these are used up they're gone; differences in AWC are less significant in road races. They will be important for short track events.

stea1thviper

also higher lactate threshold, the ability to do high intensity efforts without redlining. i think pros lactate thresholds are around 90% of max heart rate, which the majority of us fall between 70-80ish % i think.

asgelle

I wouldn't say "also." That implies that LT is something distinct from functional threshold when in fact they're just two manifestations of the same metabolism. Since LT can only be measured by blood draws and analysis, functional threshold is more easily determined for the majority of riders.

brianappleby

it seems that the answer to everything is to just push your aerobic power higher. It also seems that this is supposed to take years and I want to win races this summer. oh well.

I do have a coach but the most I can get out of him is "i'm liking the numbers I'm seeing." I'm wondering if I just ask too many questions or if it's time to go coach shopping. It's probaly the former and I need to go out and ride.

I've just finished my 5th race of the season (first serious season) and I'm coming to the realization that no matter how many hours a week I have to train, it's going to be a long time before I'm able to podium a race.

zimbo

Are you lower than a Cat2? If so, you have plenty of power on paper to win races unless you weigh more than, say, 220 pounds and enter exclusively hilly events.

If you can crank out 400 watts for 5 minutes, you can win definitely win races this summer in Cats 3-5 if you have the right racing smarts and some anaerobic endurance. Lemme ask this question... You're saying you averaged (not normalized) 350+ watts for 30 minutes in a race and you weren't on the podium? Those sound like breakaway numbers even in a Cat3 race. Hell, Dr. Will has basically won every Cat3 race he's entered this year with 30-minute power numbers no higher than that. Seriously, dude, 350 watts for 30 minutes in a race is PLENTY if you know when to use it. In a Cat5 race that would be enough to ride most of the field off your wheel even if you raced stupid.

If all you're getting from your coach is "I like the numbers" but you're not getting the placings you are hoping for, then you may need a new coach. You need someone who can help you channel your great power numbers and build some anaerobic endurance and/or some racing smarts.

I speak with my coach a couple times per month to talk about how I'm doing, we email back and forth during the week, he makes changes to my training plan on a regular basis, and he has a race hotline I use on weekends to talk about strategy before the race and/or go over what went right or wrong during the race. Because I'm a newbie racer, we spend most of our time on the phone talking about how to race, NOT the numbers. I'm definitely paying more than some people ($200/mo) but I feel like I'm getting my money's worth and then some.

--Steve

brianappleby

Zimbo, thanks for the nice words. I hear you, and i've heard the same from others, but I'm waiting for the results to follow. I'm not the smartest racer, but I'm safe and I know not to do work unless I have a good reason for it. We'll see. I've got 2 more in April and I'll be all over BForums if I place well.

zimbo

What were the circumstances of your 30 minutes at 352 watts during a race? Was it a long road race with a sustained climb?

--Steve

brianappleby

the race was 4 laps of a 10.5 mile loop made of short climbs and descents. The longest hill was 4 minutes long and about 5%. There were some steeper ones but none took more than a minute or 2 to climb. 1 lap took around 35 min so that average was from a lot of descending below 350 and a lot of climbing above it.

zimbo

Your numbers are average power, not normalized power, right? And it's Cat5, right?

I'm not trying to pester you. I'm trying to be helpful, honest! I keep asking for more detail because I'm having a really hard time believing you could put out that much sustained power and not end up on the podium. If you were drafting wisely, it would mean that the pack was hurtling along at the equivalent of well over 400 watts for an hour. I've never seen a Cat5 group anywhere near organized enough during a race to do that. Did you spend time on the front or chasing down a break? Did you post a report of this race?

To put this in perspective, in a recent Cat5 race that I won on a last minute solo breakaway my highest average 1-hour power was a mere 210 watts. I weigh a little less than you but not enough to make that much of a difference.

I know that California has a very competitive racing scene but I'm having a hard time believing it's that much more competitive in Cat5 than NC/SC/VA.

--Steve

stea1thviper

agreed. 284 watts for 2 hours is some serious wattage when compared to cat4/5 racers. with that kind of endurance, you wouldnt even need to race smart to win. you'd easily ride everyone off your wheel very quickly. you must be doing extra laps.

oboeguy

Or a defective power meter. Geez, those are huge numbers for Cat5.

brianappleby

Now I feel sheepish that you've taken an interest into why I suck so bad. Awesome.
Race report posted in another thread. Ward's Ferry.
Im pretty sure power is average, not normailzed. It's the only (avg) that my program shows. I'm using Power Agent 7. I know I should really just shell out the $99 for training peaks. That's coming soon.

stea1thviper

this has nothing to do with poweragent or cycling peaks. the powermeter is definitely defective, and not by a small margin either. like i said earlier, if you really had those numbers you would not need any strategy whatsoever to win a 4/5 race.

Jim Bonnet

With numbers like you are tossing around you have no business in a cat 4/5 race... your ftp is up over 300w someplace. In norcal you would be very decent in any e3 race and could probably eek out some places to get upgrade points to a 2... good luck

grebletie

If the numbers are average power, that's even worse. Generally, given the stochastic nature of racing, average power tracks lower than normalized power.

It's possible the numbers are correct. Sounds like you need to somehow corroborate the numbers, though, just to be sure. That, and get a new coach.

bdcheung

Which powermeter are you using? Can we see some verifiable data?