rules and responsibility of officials?
04-16-07, 05:50 PM
#1
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rules and responsibility of officials?
okay, so this weekend i raced the tucson bicycle classic (cat 4). a great 3-day stage race with (1)a tough 3mile prologue, (2)a road race with one of the steepest climbs i've ever seen-and you had to go up it 8 times in the 4 race, (3) a great circuit race with some rollers, a mild climb, and a slight-uphill finish.
now, my problem with the race has nothing to do with the courses, it has to do with the officials and the rules of stage racing:
1-there were a few people in my race who did not complete the road race, and then turned around and entered the circuit race.....this can't be allowed, honestly?
2-we were told at the start line for the road race that we had to keep track of our own lap count; it wasn't the officials responsibility?
3-i had to drive back to NM after my race ended on sunday morning at 10:30, and i wasn't about to wait around until 2:30 at the host hotel to confirm that i placed somewhere in the bottom half of the GC, but when i checked results today online, i wasn't even listed as a starter for day 3 (and yes, i did check in prior to racing stage 3)!?!? -i can understand it's my responsibility to confirm final results, but 4 hours later at a different location!?!?
i realize that promotors and officials are human, but things like (1) just shouldn't happen, and as for (2), officials ARE responsible for things like lap counts. and (3) there were four people watching the start finish and nobody wrote down my number (i'm not bragging here, but when i was in an early break the announcer shouted my number as we crossed the start/finish on the second lap).
now, my problem with the race has nothing to do with the courses, it has to do with the officials and the rules of stage racing:
1-there were a few people in my race who did not complete the road race, and then turned around and entered the circuit race.....this can't be allowed, honestly?
2-we were told at the start line for the road race that we had to keep track of our own lap count; it wasn't the officials responsibility?
3-i had to drive back to NM after my race ended on sunday morning at 10:30, and i wasn't about to wait around until 2:30 at the host hotel to confirm that i placed somewhere in the bottom half of the GC, but when i checked results today online, i wasn't even listed as a starter for day 3 (and yes, i did check in prior to racing stage 3)!?!? -i can understand it's my responsibility to confirm final results, but 4 hours later at a different location!?!?
i realize that promotors and officials are human, but things like (1) just shouldn't happen, and as for (2), officials ARE responsible for things like lap counts. and (3) there were four people watching the start finish and nobody wrote down my number (i'm not bragging here, but when i was in an early break the announcer shouted my number as we crossed the start/finish on the second lap).
04-16-07, 06:14 PM
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In all the stage races I've been in, people can enter any of the individual stages but they are not counted toward GC unless they do them all.
As for keeping lap count...? I ain't that smart to do that on my own while riding....
As for keeping lap count...? I ain't that smart to do that on my own while riding....
04-16-07, 06:23 PM
#3
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Oh my god stop the presses. Officials are human and make mistakes. Now that's some news. There's a reason for the 15 minute protest period, but rather than take advantage of it and try to correct errors, you choose to complain that the officials weren't perfect. 1. If you're going to race, read the rulebook before the event and know what you're doing. If you saw a violation either file a protest or not, but don't complain if you don't protest and nothing is done. 2. It is not the officials job to keep your lap count. Especially since they announced it at the start, why would you think otherwise? 3. There is a process to correct scoring errors, you chose not to avail yourself of it. If it wasn't important enough to you to correct it, don't complain the next day that no one else corrected it for you.
There's an awful lot going on during a bike race especially with multiple groups on the course. The officials are first concerned with rider safety, then with insuring a fair race. There's a limit to how much they can see and mistakes happen. I think everyone would be better served if next time you had the chance, you tried to help them out rather than just sit back and criticize.
There's an awful lot going on during a bike race especially with multiple groups on the course. The officials are first concerned with rider safety, then with insuring a fair race. There's a limit to how much they can see and mistakes happen. I think everyone would be better served if next time you had the chance, you tried to help them out rather than just sit back and criticize.
04-16-07, 06:28 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by cat4ever
In all the stage races I've been in, people can enter any of the individual stages but they are not counted toward GC unless they do them all.
From the USCF Rulebook
1A30. A stage race is an event with a common entry, run on consecutive days, comprising a sequence of road races (i.e. individual road races, time trials, criteriums), in which the overall results are determined by cumulative time or points. There are normally individual and team competitions. Riders must successfully complete each stage in order to be eligible for the next one.
1A31. An omnium is a set of races in which riders compete for points in each event and final placings are determined by total points in all events. Riders do not have to participate in each event of the omnium. Different numbers of points may be given in different events. The scoring scheme shall be specified in the official race announcement. The default omnium scheme for track events is specified in rule 2O1.
04-16-07, 08:31 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by asgelle
Oh my god stop the presses. Officials are human and make mistakes. Now that's some news. There's a reason for the 15 minute protest period, but rather than take advantage of it and try to correct errors, you choose to complain that the officials weren't perfect. 1. If you're going to race, read the rulebook before the event and know what you're doing. If you saw a violation either file a protest or not, but don't complain if you don't protest and nothing is done. 2. It is not the officials job to keep your lap count. Especially since they announced it at the start, why would you think otherwise? 3. There is a process to correct scoring errors, you chose not to avail yourself of it. If it wasn't important enough to you to correct it, don't complain the next day that no one else corrected it for you.
There's an awful lot going on during a bike race especially with multiple groups on the course. The officials are first concerned with rider safety, then with insuring a fair race. There's a limit to how much they can see and mistakes happen. I think everyone would be better served if next time you had the chance, you tried to help them out rather than just sit back and criticize.
There's an awful lot going on during a bike race especially with multiple groups on the course. The officials are first concerned with rider safety, then with insuring a fair race. There's a limit to how much they can see and mistakes happen. I think everyone would be better served if next time you had the chance, you tried to help them out rather than just sit back and criticize.
-i was asking a question about stage race rules, not complaining. and regarding my final GC status, i did send an email to the promoter. (and i'm not pissed about it, if i was in contention for a top spot i would've hung around, i do think not keeping track of who's even racing is a bit ridiculous, though)
-why exactly is it not the officials job to keep the lap count? this issue became a problem in the women's race when an official called 'one lap to go' on the road race (a lap early) to only half the group, then tried to penalize them for not completing all of the laps. it seems to me it is precisely the officials job(s) to, as you say: "The officials are first concerned with rider safety, then with insuring a fair race"
i don't really care about my own standing (if i did i would've made a big stink with officials then and there), i'm just commenting on what i felt to be poor management of a bike race.
04-17-07, 07:36 AM
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Officials do have a thankless job, but just a few thoughts.
- stage race vs. omnium/points race, asgelle has you covered with the rule book there
- lap counts, I think it should be the officials job to keep track of the laps for the leading group and/or main peleton, after that, you arent really in the race anyway, you're just on a ride so IMO those riders should be asked to leave the course/pulled for safety reasons and if not pulled, keep track of your own whereabouts.
- results and protest period, good rule in theory, BUT administration of it is often poor. It should be the responsibility of the officials to know how many places pay, how deep the places earn BAR or upgrade points, determine those places accurately and timely, and post them. For crits in MABRA, this is generally done fairly proficiently, but RRs, it seems to take forever. There is a nearby district that is notoriously bad at getting the results posted accurately and timely. Last year, this district put on the age graded road race for this as well as the district that I race in, they mucked up the TOP 10, which was a splintered field that could have been counted by hand! They had a guy that I rode with that morning (neither of us participated in the race) listed as finishing 15th, whereas he was 3 hrs. away from the race location! Resulted in lots of complaining and frankly comical emails, but honestly, screwing up the results like that is inexcusable. Again, I understand that being an official is thankless, but it annoys me when the martyr card is pulled out and used as an excuse for officials not performing their thankless job up to standard.
- stage race vs. omnium/points race, asgelle has you covered with the rule book there
- lap counts, I think it should be the officials job to keep track of the laps for the leading group and/or main peleton, after that, you arent really in the race anyway, you're just on a ride so IMO those riders should be asked to leave the course/pulled for safety reasons and if not pulled, keep track of your own whereabouts.
- results and protest period, good rule in theory, BUT administration of it is often poor. It should be the responsibility of the officials to know how many places pay, how deep the places earn BAR or upgrade points, determine those places accurately and timely, and post them. For crits in MABRA, this is generally done fairly proficiently, but RRs, it seems to take forever. There is a nearby district that is notoriously bad at getting the results posted accurately and timely. Last year, this district put on the age graded road race for this as well as the district that I race in, they mucked up the TOP 10, which was a splintered field that could have been counted by hand! They had a guy that I rode with that morning (neither of us participated in the race) listed as finishing 15th, whereas he was 3 hrs. away from the race location! Resulted in lots of complaining and frankly comical emails, but honestly, screwing up the results like that is inexcusable. Again, I understand that being an official is thankless, but it annoys me when the martyr card is pulled out and used as an excuse for officials not performing their thankless job up to standard.
