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Cosmic Carbone SL Premiums for Crits

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Cosmic Carbone SL Premiums for Crits

Old 04-27-07, 09:20 AM
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Greko
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Cosmic Carbone SL Premiums for Crits

I ride Mavic ES clinchers as an all around racing & climbing wheel, but am wondering if Id gain anything with the Carbone SL Premiums just for the crits.

Has anyone here ridden both?

Whadda you think?
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Old 04-27-07, 09:22 AM
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sleazy
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i've ridden the Es for over 8500 miles and have a pair of cosmic carbone tubulars...

personally, i only use the carbons for long, flat-ish road races where aerodynamics might be a benefit.

for hilly or quicker races (crits)... i prefer something lighter.


my $.02
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Old 04-27-07, 09:37 AM
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I love my Zipp 303 tubulars for crits. 1120 grams, 44mm deep, so they are very light, reasonably aero, stiff, and only a little bit more pricey than the Carbones.
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Old 04-27-07, 11:14 AM
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The larger big watt guys prefer the carbones for their stiffness. I'm in the 404 knock off camp.
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Old 04-27-07, 12:16 PM
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I was recently in the aero wheel market and was considering the Mavic Cosmic Carbonne SL, Zipp 303/404, Flashpoint FP40/FP60, and HED Jet 50. Most of the races I do are crits, probably 4 to 1 over road races. After conferring with my LBS (shop owner is buddy and main sponsor of the team I race on - so, trusted advice) and coach, I ended up buying the 303s. Clinchers because I'm too dumb to glue tires onto wheels without screwing it up.

Anyway, to give you a roundabout answer to your ?, to paraphrase the LBS comments on the Mavic Carbonnes were that he has sold a bunch, most folks think that the aero nature of the wheels makes them feel faster, but LBS had 2 "major" concerns with the wheels. 1)The carbon is just a fairing, not structurally part of the wheel, which LBS thought to be something that could easily break and render the wheel useless; 2)spokes go through the carbon fairing and if you need to true the wheel or change a spoke, the tire had to come off - incovenient but not a huge deal in a clincher rim, but a real PITA for a tubular rim.

If those arent concerns to you, I'd say get 'em. If those are concerns, get the Zipps, the 303s seriously rock.
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Old 04-27-07, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MDcatV
I was recently in the aero wheel market and was considering the Mavic Cosmic Carbonne SL, Zipp 303/404, Flashpoint FP40/FP60, and HED Jet 50. Most of the races I do are crits, probably 4 to 1 over road races. After conferring with my LBS (shop owner is buddy and main sponsor of the team I race on - so, trusted advice) and coach, I ended up buying the 303s. Clinchers because I'm too dumb to glue tires onto wheels without screwing it up.

Anyway, to give you a roundabout answer to your ?, to paraphrase the LBS comments on the Mavic Carbonnes were that he has sold a bunch, most folks think that the aero nature of the wheels makes them feel faster, but LBS had 2 "major" concerns with the wheels. 1)The carbon is just a fairing, not structurally part of the wheel, which LBS thought to be something that could easily break and render the wheel useless; 2)spokes go through the carbon fairing and if you need to true the wheel or change a spoke, the tire had to come off - incovenient but not a huge deal in a clincher rim, but a real PITA for a tubular rim.

If those arent concerns to you, I'd say get 'em. If those are concerns, get the Zipps, the 303s seriously rock.

point1: not true. yes there are some wheels with a carbon "fairing"- and i agree that these suck. but the mavic cosmic tubulars are structurally part of the wheel. there is no metal rim. they are quite strong, and are basically a carbon "box" section rim.

point2: not true. maybe for the "fairing" type wheels, but with the tubular cosmics... the spoke ties in, right at the edge of the carbon aero bit.


and glueing tires is really not that big a deal. give it a try sometime. i know guys that boil parafin wax and grease with almost a fetish-ist zeal... or clean their bikes with q-tips.... or spend thousands of dollars to lose a few grams...

but then think glueing a tire is too much hassle. give it a try. you might actually enjoy the end result.
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Old 04-27-07, 01:40 PM
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^^^hmmm, my purchase is done, but for my own info, could points 1 and 2 be with the clincher version, whereas it's different (as you've pointed out) with the tubular version?
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Old 04-27-07, 01:49 PM
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Carbone SL Premiums are clinchers...basically the same thing as SL with some Ti bits and subdued decals. Not to be confused with the Pro's or the Ultimate's...
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Old 04-27-07, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bitterken
Carbone SL Premiums are clinchers...
Yes, they are clinchers. Let's keep tubs out of this.
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Old 04-27-07, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
The larger big watt guys prefer the carbones for their stiffness. I'm in the 404 knock off camp.

since you mentioned it. . .what is a good 404 knock off?
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Old 04-30-07, 02:01 AM
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I ride the Carbones, super stiff and very aero. I love em.
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Old 04-30-07, 02:33 AM
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It has already been mentioned but usually it is preferred to have a lower profile rim for crit racing with light weight. That being said it seems like a lot of guys these days go for the semi-aero/aero wheelsets such as the carbones, 303/404's, etc. I do not know if that is because of the bling factor or that people actually do like them more. I see the practicality for larger riders who are more putting more power to the pedals (not my case at 69kilos) but otherwise I think it would be more beneficial to have the ksyerium ES. We just had the mavic rep for the shop I work for come in and talk to us about that issue.

Oh and regarding someone who said the carbones just have a carbon fairing, that is completely false. Probably not good that a shop owner told you that...may wanna question their expertise in the future. Just take a look at one of the demo wheels and you will quickly see that that is not the case. It is just a difference of the braking surface between the carbone sl and es (I think I am getting those model names correct...if not, someone please correct me!). The sl has an aluminum braking surface whereas the es is an all carbon wheel. Still, with the sl the carbon is not just a fairing...the majority of the rim is CF with an aluminum braking surface. All that being said, I want a set of Reynolds !
~Nick
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Old 04-30-07, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ernesto Schwein
since you mentioned it. . .what is a good 404 knock off?
American Classic 58's. I'm racing a set with Sapim spokes and am pretty happy...
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Old 04-30-07, 08:14 AM
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I’d guessing the wheel choice probably depends on your game plan for the crit.

For a sit and sprint plan, you don’t need aero, but you do need light / quick acceleration - like the ES.

For breakaways, or bridging gaps, the deep aero wheel would probably work better.

Does that seem right?

Last edited by Greko; 04-30-07 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 04-30-07, 08:15 AM
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you want aero, aero, aero & stiff unless it's really going uphill...

look at some of the data from the biketechreview tests.
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Old 04-30-07, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
American Classic 58's. I'm racing a set with Sapim spokes and am pretty happy...
They are not knock offs, they just aren't integrated with golf ball technology
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Old 04-30-07, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Ernesto Schwein
since you mentioned it. . .what is a good 404 knock off?
Ritchey WCS Carbons are also a good 404 knock off. They come in tubbie and clincher - although the clinchers are rather heavy.
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Old 04-30-07, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ccrnnr9
Oh and regarding someone who said the carbones just have a carbon fairing, that is completely false. Probably not good that a shop owner told you that...may wanna question their expertise in the future. Just take a look at one of the demo wheels and you will quickly see that that is not the case. It is just a difference of the braking surface between the carbone sl and es (I think I am getting those model names correct...if not, someone please correct me!). The sl has an aluminum braking surface whereas the es is an all carbon wheel. Still, with the sl the carbon is not just a fairing...the majority of the rim is CF with an aluminum braking surface.
~Nick

Nah, the aluminum isn't just a braking surface. The Carbone SL and Carbone Premium are basically an Open Pro (or the equivalent tubular, in the tubular version) with a fairing. Not that there's anything wrong with that, the fairing is "structural" in that it adds a bit of support to the spokes some 5 cm from the rim surface.

Carbone Pro and Carbone Ultimate use full carbon rims along the lines of the Reynolds.

In both types of wheels the spoke nipples are "hidden" and accessed by removing the tires; that's really the only similarity in construction.

There is no "ES" designation in the Carbone line.

Helpful taxonomy here:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...ODE=&BRAND.ID=
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