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What am I doing wrong?

Old 05-27-07, 04:22 PM
  #1  
Thor05
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What am I doing wrong?

I ride with a local club There are several riders I can beat on the long tough climbs, one rider I beat by several minutes on a 2.5k climb. I did a race yesterday and several of the same riders were in the race. The race was only 24 mile but very hilly. All the club riders beat me, I could not hold on during the climbs and they were not as steep as the ones I ride all the time. Is it just bad tactics on my part, or what is going on?
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Old 05-27-07, 04:36 PM
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Several minutes on a 2.5k climb doesn't sound right, but regardless there may be several possible explanations:

(a) the riders in your club aren't going at race pace during the club ride

(b) if you're an lightweight rider, steeper hills might be better for you than gradual hills

(c) you might have been disproportionately more fatigued than the other riders and therefore could not climb as well as normal

--Steve
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Old 05-27-07, 09:35 PM
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You aren't fit enough to follow the leaders.

Train more.
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Old 05-27-07, 10:07 PM
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don't listen to ed's old school advice, lol. just kidding. He's right in that he states the obvious.

I hear about this situation a lot where some guys tear it up during group rides and during their training sessions but die on race day. I know it well because I was in the same boat training and suffering during the week and then sucking really bad on weekends(races). The trick is to find that balance of suffering during the week and the rigors of racing on the weekends. You can't annihilate your body during the week and expect yourself to be fresh on weekends.

BALANCE
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Old 05-27-07, 10:27 PM
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It's likely that you were taking a beating before the big climbs, and you just didn't have enough left in your legs or your tank. I'd really watch what those guys are doing during the whole race, where they are in the pack, cadence, etc.

So, yeah, it's likely to be tactics.
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Old 05-27-07, 10:32 PM
  #6  
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if how you do in that race is important, you want to be as rested as possible for it. if the race is on saturday, tuesday should be your last day of the week for intensity. wednesday is the last day for distance. thursday and friday should be EASY recovery spins.

if this doesn't apply to you, then waterrockets is right, tactics and conservation of energy in a pack are the problem.

or you could just train more
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Old 05-27-07, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bodaciousguy
don't listen to ed's old school advice, lol. just kidding. He's right in that he states the obvious.

I hear about this situation a lot where some guys tear it up during group rides and during their training sessions but die on race day. I know it well because I was in the same boat training and suffering during the week and then sucking really bad on weekends(races). The trick is to find that balance of suffering during the week and the rigors of racing on the weekends. You can't annihilate your body during the week and expect yourself to be fresh on weekends.

BALANCE

It could also have to do with where they are in their training. If you were doing a base or a build phase and they are peaking - that could affect things.
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Old 05-27-07, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Thor05
I ride with a local club There are several riders I can beat on the long tough climbs, one rider I beat by several minutes on a 2.5k climb. I did a race yesterday and several of the same riders were in the race. The race was only 24 mile but very hilly. All the club riders beat me,

Last edited by Vinokurtov; 05-28-07 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 05-28-07, 01:14 AM
  #9  
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Learn to draft...
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Old 05-28-07, 03:14 AM
  #10  
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their all doping
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Old 05-28-07, 06:25 AM
  #11  
Thor05
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Originally Posted by waterrockets
It's likely that you were taking a beating before the big climbs, and you just didn't have enough left in your legs or your tank. I'd really watch what those guys are doing during the whole race, where they are in the pack, cadence, etc.

So, yeah, it's likely to be tactics.
Yea, i think I need more work on my drafting. I tend to have to work harder then i should on the flat rolling stuff. This was only my second road race.
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Old 05-28-07, 09:45 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
To elaborate. I get "beat" all the time on training rides. That's because I'm training, not racing, and only do full race speed during structured intervals.

Now you're asking "what happened?" so not only did they beat you physically, but they're in your head as well.

Allow for the possibility that they are faster than you believed.
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Old 05-29-07, 12:08 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Learn to draft...
...and suffer
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Old 05-29-07, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
To elaborate. I get "beat" all the time on training rides. That's because I'm training, not racing, and only do full race speed during structured intervals.

Now you're asking "what happened?" so not only did they beat you physically, but they're in your head as well.


Allow for the possibility that they are faster than you believed.
haha i believe!
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Old 05-29-07, 12:41 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Thor05
I ride with a local club There are several riders I can beat on the long tough climbs, one rider I beat by several minutes on a 2.5k climb. I did a race yesterday and several of the same riders were in the race. The race was only 24 mile but very hilly. All the club riders beat me, I could not hold on during the climbs and they were not as steep as the ones I ride all the time. Is it just bad tactics on my part, or what is going on?
Riding a hill in training mode is not always the same as in race mode. How did you cope with the changes in pace? If you're used to riding hills at a set pace 'your pace' finding yourself in a race when the pace is jumping all over the place is totally different, your body and mind responds differently.
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Old 05-29-07, 05:55 AM
  #16  
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What did you do during the week before the race?
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Old 05-29-07, 06:47 AM
  #17  
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technically, you're not "beating" these guys on the climbs. You're simply expending more energy and reading way more into it than you should. I ride with some super strong (Vino-types) and they spin lightly on the hills while a lot of club riders hammer to stay up front. They also recover while we reach the top of the climb which in a race you won't be able to do and it makes them feel like they're "holding their own".

Truth be known a training ride is just that and shouldn't be used to gauge anyone's racing ability.

Sounds like you know what areas you need to train more.

Good luck.
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Old 05-29-07, 03:12 PM
  #18  
Thor05
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Originally Posted by I saw Elvis
Riding a hill in training mode is not always the same as in race mode. How did you cope with the changes in pace? If you're used to riding hills at a set pace 'your pace' finding yourself in a race when the pace is jumping all over the place is totally different, your body and mind responds differently.
Yea, I was not coping well with the pace change. Any suggestions for training for the race changes, just intervals? I do intervals on the trainer all winter when the weather warms up I like to climb hills.
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Old 05-29-07, 03:18 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by kensuf
What did you do during the week before the race?
Nothing special. I did a short easy ride the day before. The week before I was on vacation and I did more than twice my normal mileage.
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Old 05-30-07, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Thor05
Nothing special. I did a short easy ride the day before. The week before I was on vacation and I did more than twice my normal mileage.
You've answered your own question.
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Old 05-30-07, 07:59 AM
  #21  
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As others have stated, it is likely that during the club rides you are probably working at 90% your capacity (i.e. you are going hard) while everyone else is going at 75%. They are disciplined enough to be dropped on the hills and stay within their goals for that ride.
Then on the race you are around your same 90% effort and the other riders are now at 90% as well. They drop you.

I am a n00b here but I saw it all the time as a distance runner who lead training groups for the Indy Half Marathon. We could tell people over and over to not train at top effort all the time and they would never listen. I would lead a 8, 8:30 or 9 minute pace group and would have people wanting to go harder every single time. Then at the mini I would run a sub 1:50 and they would be over 2:00.

Training hard all the time is not the best approach, no matter how much macho pain=gain folks say it is. Having hard and easy days is essential to good training, IMHO. A HR monitor is the only real way to know for sure.
Advice #1 - have hard and easy days - follow some form of a plan and be disciplined enought to stick with it EVEN WHEN someone of lessor ability is passing you
Advice #2 - do not go too hard on your easy days and do not go too easy on your hard days.
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