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racers,, explain how you countersteer in a corner

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racers,, explain how you countersteer in a corner

Old 05-29-07, 10:55 PM
  #1  
sbskates
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racers,, explain how you countersteer in a corner

been reading up on ****ersteering, i know i apply some of it already. can someone explain what they do? some things i have read seem to oppose each other. just looking for the correct method. thanks.
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Old 05-29-07, 11:46 PM
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I think I fall into the "unconsciously" doing it category. After having read a long diatribe on it once, I found myself thinking about it while riding later that week or so. I didn't physically do anything differently but I mentally took notice that it was occurring. But, I'm no physics guru. I just accept that when I want to turn, something happens and then the bike starts turning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering
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Old 05-30-07, 01:02 AM
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Practice riding around parking-lot at 8-10mph with just one hand on the bars. You'll get a feel of what it takes to make the bike turn. To go right, you'll actually have to aim the steering to the left. If you've got just your right hand on the bars, you'll have to push on the right-hand or pull on the left-hand to make the bike go right. Practice with one hand, then the other on the bars. Practice going right and going left and doing slaloms with one hand. It'll make a lot of sense once you get it.
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Old 05-30-07, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sbskates
been reading up on ****ersteering, i know i apply some of it already. can someone explain what they do? some things i have read seem to oppose each other. just looking for the correct method. thanks.
Good old mountainbike technique, to avoid falling down the ...cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiff )
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Old 05-30-07, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Practice riding around parking-lot at 8-10mph with just one hand on the bars. You'll get a feel of what it takes to make the bike turn. To go right, you'll actually have to aim the steering to the left. If you've got just your right hand on the bars, you'll have to push on the right-hand or pull on the left-hand to make the bike go right. Practice with one hand, then the other on the bars. Practice going right and going left and doing slaloms with one hand. It'll make a lot of sense once you get it.
that's a clearer explanation than the one in the carpenter/phinney book.
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Old 05-30-07, 05:19 AM
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I'm guessing that you left out an "o" in cOuntersteer--- not to worry, the censor protected us.
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Old 05-30-07, 05:25 AM
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http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/ar....asp?recid=320

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Old 05-30-07, 06:14 AM
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Here's Davis Phinney explaining it to some dorky bike race announcer.

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Old 05-30-07, 06:28 AM
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This is a misuse of the term. The common meaning of "countersteering" is captured by Danno's post. I'm not sure what to call this leaning version, but to call it "countersteering" confuses existing terminology shared with motorcycling. I'm fine with the illustrated techniques, but I don't think the middle one is "countersteering." You countersteer a bicycle independent of how you lean.

The most common conscious use of countersteering for me is to tighten up in a corner. If I'm in a decreasing radius turn, or need to adjust because of a change in situation (guy turning in on me), I push forward pretty hard on my inside bar. This leans the bike quickly and turns me more sharply.
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Old 05-30-07, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by EventServices
Here's Davis Phinney explaining it to some dorky bike race announcer.

Heehee....hey, you should come over to announce my race on June 16th! That would be different...me GETTING interviewed instead of the other way around.
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Old 05-30-07, 06:43 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by NoRacer
This is not so much about steering, but about how to weight your bike to get maximum traction in a tight turn. I'm not sure why it works, but it does. This is what allows me to go 40 mph down garfoot rd despite the twisties. Trying to use method 1 is much more scary, and I don't even want to think about #3.

BTW, in motorcycling, 1 is for high speed turns, 2 is for low speed turns. Again, I'm not sure why there is a difference with cycling
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Old 05-30-07, 06:46 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by sbskates
been reading up on ****ersteering, i know i apply some of it already. can someone explain what they do? some things i have read seem to oppose each other. just looking for the correct method. thanks.
Pick up "Twist of the Wrist 2" by Keith Code. It's specific to motorcycle racing, but it goes into a lot of details about countersteering.
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Old 05-30-07, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets
This is a misuse of the term.
+1. Completely wrong.
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Old 05-30-07, 06:56 AM
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FYI, if you get your lean correct you've accomplished 90% of what you need to do with countersteering.
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Old 05-30-07, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
I'm guessing that you left out an "o" in cOuntersteer--- not to worry, the censor protected us.

Well, I've heard you really do steer the bike from the seat.
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Old 05-30-07, 08:19 AM
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Yep, that image has nothing to do with countersteering. Twist of the Wrist is a great book. Motorcyclists seem to "get" countersteering more than bicyclists because it's far more obvious at 50MPH than it is at 15MPH. Motorcycle physics "at speed" are pretty fascinating if you're a geek.
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Old 05-30-07, 08:26 AM
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...and are pretty important if you're avoiding a hospital.
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Old 05-30-07, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DogBoy
Originally Posted by NoRacer
BTW, in motorcycling, 1 is for high speed turns, 2 is for low speed turns. Again, I'm not sure why there is a difference with cycling
I generally use method 2 for going through tighter corners so I don't need to hit my brakes. Like countersteering, you really should practice all three types of cornering and figure out when each method applies.

Method 3 is great for pedaling through corners without clipping, or off-camber corners. I use a similar method on the track to keep myself on the banking at less-than-optimal speeds, also to avoid clipping a pedal.
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Old 05-31-07, 04:31 AM
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Method 3 also works great for wide-open full-speed corners, like mountain downhills. Keeping the tyre vertical gives the best grip for maximum-cornering. Method 2 works fine for crits since you never corner at the limit anyway, but going from full-upright to full-lean quickly makes a huge difference.
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Old 05-31-07, 06:01 PM
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To initiate a turn to the right push the right bar, only takes light pressure. The term countersteer comes from the fact that you are turning the bars to the left to initiate a lean (and thus a turn) to the right.

By far it's the most efficient and accurate way to control your bike at race speed. I never did go for all of the odd leans shown, they tend to move the bike around less precisely than counter steering.

I can usually tell the guys who know this technique, they are the ones with just one apex per turn
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Old 06-01-07, 12:10 AM
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I've been perplexed by written explanations, too. Thanks for the thread.

Found these videos on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1A7o-aXvqU
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Old 06-01-07, 12:28 AM
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nice post myclem.
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Old 06-01-07, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by myclem
I've been perplexed by written explanations, too. Thanks for the thread.

Found these videos on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1A7o-aXvqU
We have a winner!
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Old 06-01-07, 06:43 AM
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Yeah, great explanation and visuals in those videos. My eyes are still burning from watching the Fred rip a corner though. Any tips on unseeing something?
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Old 06-01-07, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DogBoy
This is not so much about steering, but about how to weight your bike to get maximum traction in a tight turn. I'm not sure why it works, but it does. This is what allows me to go 40 mph down garfoot rd despite the twisties. Trying to use method 1 is much more scary, and I don't even want to think about #3.
My understanding was that #3 is good for crits where you want to pedal around the turns (If you lean the bike too far, the pedals will strike). #1 and #2 are good for descents because you can coast with the inside pedal up for more clearance. I believe #2 gives the most traction.
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