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Conconi Test

Old 06-01-07, 02:22 PM
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Conconi Test

I finally got myself a powertap yesterday, so I decided to take a stab at my watts at threshold. My first guess was 220-250 so i wrote myself a little chart to write down my hr at each wattage and stopped at 300. I did the Graded Exercise test by the way. I got to 300 and had to hurry up and draw some more boxes in to write some more numbers. Managed to make it to 380 before blowing up:



this is my first time trying/graphing all this so i might have messed up the test, but it looks to me like my LT is 320 watts at 188 bpm
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Old 06-01-07, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by snoboard2
this is my first time trying/graphing all this so i might have messed up the test, but it looks to me like my LT is 320 watts at 188 bpm
That's not the conclusion I would draw, but I'm not sure I understand the procedure. If the max HR you recorded is 188 bpm, your LT is surely lower than that.

--Steve
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Old 06-01-07, 02:28 PM
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What was the testing procedure that you used? 1min increments with 20w increases? If you've never done a 20min or 50-60min test, 320w might be placing a little too much faith in this method.
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Old 06-01-07, 02:30 PM
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A link to a correctly administered Conconi test with result (for some unnamed cyclist).

Conconi test

Mark
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Old 06-01-07, 02:41 PM
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My confirmed max hr is 210 (3 separate hr monitors 3 different times twice on the bike and once running). I plan on doing a 30 min tt tonight after a nap, then a 60 min tt sat/sun to verify. It does seem a little high. the reason my heart rate doesn't go up after 320 is right after i wrote down my hr for 320 i dropped my table i was writing it on (did it alone) and slowed down to pick it up for a second, and my heart rate dropped b/c i slowed down.

Originally Posted by mark's link
According to Todd, a more accurate number which takes real world experience into account is closer to 94%
ahh, makes sense. i used the 20w increase every minute procedure. so 94% of 320w is 300w.

p.s. i'm doing the tests for friel's book. aparently a well trained anaerobic endurance means i would last 5+ minutes past LT. I only lasted 2 (kinda crappy) which makes sense b/c I haven't done intervals for a while now, just tons of base

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Old 06-01-07, 04:23 PM
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Using Stern's zones on a graded exercise test, your FTP is closer to 75-78% of your 1 mean mean max for the graded exercise test. He uses 25 watt per minute increases, so i would think doing smaller increases in 1 minute increments would net you something lower than 75-78%. This thread here is someone talking about basically your situation.

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t392634.html

There are a handful of threads on the google groups wattage thread related to Conconi testing, none of which have any faith in the Conconi deflection to be useful at predicting anything.
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Old 06-01-07, 05:36 PM
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after reading that thread, here's what i got: do a modified conconi test as they describe; a rough estimate of FTP is 75-80% of the wattage I couldn't hold. Based on the test I did earlier today, a better FTP estimate for me would be 285, so I'll test that value in a few TTs.

lol i'm glad i didn't start doing intervals right away with my first number. I'dve killed myself.
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Old 06-01-07, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by NomadVW
There are a handful of threads on the google groups wattage thread related to Conconi testing, none of which have any faith in the Conconi deflection to be useful at predicting anything.
I seem to remember USA Cycling abandoning the Conconi test a long time ago.
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Old 06-01-07, 08:41 PM
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I have done the Conconi test on myself many times and have obtained a clear deflection only once. If you progressively increase cadence during the test you will have a higher chance of obtaining the deflection.

The max level completed is still a useful indicator of fitness.
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Old 06-01-07, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by snoboard2
<snip>
a rough estimate of FTP is 75-80% of the wattage I couldn't hold.
<snip>
Not the wattage you couldn't hold, but the mean maximal power for the highest 1 minute.

For instance, my last MAP test in February started at 175 watts, increased by 25 watts per minute.

I was at exhaustion when my wife said "Ok... 475 honey! You can do it!" I looked up at her, and felt my lung coming through my chest and quit. My highest 1 minute power during the MAP test was 452. That's MAP, Max Aerobic Power. My coach gave me an FTP of 345 based on combination of a 30 minute TT and my MAP, which made my FTP roughly 76% of MAP. I've talked to other folks with the same/similar coaching that have been 75-80% of MAP.
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Old 06-01-07, 09:04 PM
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thanks for the info nomad. I get to have some fun tomorrow. I doubt i'll have someone (much less your wife) to help me out, i can look at my workout on cyclingpeaks afterwards and determine what i need to know correct?

also, after doing a 30 min TT, how would I use that data to determine FTP? Is it the average of the last 20 min or was that threshold heart rate?
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Old 06-01-07, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by snoboard2
thanks for the info nomad. I get to have some fun tomorrow. I doubt i'll have someone (much less your wife) to help me out, i can look at my workout on cyclingpeaks afterwards and determine what i need to know correct?

also, after doing a 30 min TT, how would I use that data to determine FTP? Is it the average of the last 20 min or was that threshold heart rate?

I went to one of Hunter Allen's clinics last fall and he said that he will take FTP as 93-95% of 20 min power.
Not sure what the % is for 30 min power.
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Old 06-01-07, 10:22 PM
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There looks to be a slight demarc at 220watts @ 166bpm?
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Old 06-01-07, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by NomadVW
My highest 1 minute power during the MAP test was 452.
Dude, you are so going to rip everyone one a new one in the lower Cats when you move back to the States. I averaged 450 watts for the last 2.5 minutes of my road race last Saturday with an angry pack nipping at my heels--an all time high for me for that duration--but NO FREAKING WAY was it after spending a minute at 300 and then a minute at 325 and then a minute at 350 and then a minute at 375 and then a minute at 400 and then a minute at 425, on a trainer no less.

I guess I should try a MAP test just to see what would happen but the whole concept seems so absolutely painful I can't bring myself to try it. It's one thing to force myself to go hard when a race win is on the line; it's another thing to do in my living room on a trainer (although it's absolutely freaking fabulous training for the end of a road race).

--Steve
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Old 06-01-07, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dial_tone
There looks to be a slight demarc at 220watts @ 166bpm?
True, but if my FTP was at 220w and I made it to 380, i'd have to walk around with a t-shirt picturing ryanf with the subtitle "I'm an anaerobic beast"

Originally Posted by zimbo
...the whole concept seems so absolutely painful...
eh, i set up a fan, turned the ac to 70 and I was fine. For the majority of the test you're aerobic. You'll have 5 min tops anaerobic, so basically its a 1x5 min interval I'd much rather do this than a 60 min tt full throttle.
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Old 06-01-07, 10:58 PM
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Quite honestly, I love MAP tests. They are FUN. And really, they're only 11-12 minutes at most of suffering after you warm up. I'm hoping to push 470+ this week for MAP. Rest week this past week going into testing week this coming week.

Originally Posted by snoboard2
thanks for the info nomad. I get to have some fun tomorrow. I doubt i'll have someone (much less your wife) to help me out, i can look at my workout on cyclingpeaks afterwards and determine what i need to know correct?

also, after doing a 30 min TT, how would I use that data to determine FTP? Is it the average of the last 20 min or was that threshold heart rate?
Thanks to the new trainingpeaks beta viewer, I can show more about the MAP test. Here's my Feb 3rd MAP test:

http://www.trainingpeaks.com/tny.asp...dnq0SUFuDkzE3u

If you select the Mean Maximal Power outputs in the lower left of the window, it will show you what the 1 minute MMP is for the workout. Cyclingpeaks will show the same information on the workout graph. You'll see the whole workout in that viewer from warmup through completion of the MAP through cool down.

We didn't make any calculations on the 30 minute hill climb TT to obtain FTP. But some of the power ranges on that hill climb were personal bests, so using the Monod's Critical Power and the 95% of the first 20 minutes of the hill climb, we could help confirm where between 75 and 80% of MAP my FTP should be called. Since I don't use Coggan zones for training, FTP pretty much only serves its purpose as a TSS basis for me. I use the Stern Zones so they are all based off MAP.

The best information on MAP tests the way I am doing them is here:

http://www.cyclecoach.com/pageID-news-Test_yourself.htm
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Old 06-01-07, 11:21 PM
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dude, you're a beast. that trainingpeaks viewer is awesome. the whole time i was looking at your cadence i was thinking brapppp, brapppp, brapppp.

p.s. thats a HUGE drop off at the end of the test. cedar point should use that as its logo
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Old 06-01-07, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by NomadVW
Quite honestly, I love MAP tests. They are FUN. And really, they're only 11-12 minutes at most of suffering after you warm up.
I agree, fun workout.
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