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Old 07-05-07, 06:17 PM   #1
UmneyDurak
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Choosing a tubular tire

So I got my rear wheel back. Rim was replaced and wheel was rebuild by Ritchey. So now I am thinking what tire to put on it. I used Continentals Sprinter with Continental glue, and was happy with glue and tire performance. Only downside is that I can't take out a valve so it needs to be opened all the time (I am using Zipp valve extenders). I was wondering if there is anything else that is as good or better in the same price range? I was thinking of going with Tufo tires and trying their extreme tape. Anyone else uses them on Ritchey carbon rims?

Thanks.
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Old 07-05-07, 06:57 PM   #2
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Vittoria Corsa EVO CX's with Mastik one are like butta. PBK has 'em pretty cheap, in the $45 range.
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Old 07-05-07, 07:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Only downside is that I can't take out a valve so it needs to be opened all the time (I am using Zipp valve extenders). I was wondering if there is anything else that is as good or better in the same price range?

Thanks.
I've tried Veloflex, Vittoria, conti and Tufo, but I'm not sure what you mean regarding the valve extender from Zipp. Take a 3mm and screw it off if you're trying to get the extender off. There are other valve extenders that don't require the valve to be open. You'd just take the original valve out, screw the extender on and then put the valve in the extender.

Anecdotally, here is what my perception was/is:

-Veloflex carbon was the fastest rolling tire. Fragile sidewall. Easy to cut.
-Conti Sprinter for $40 USD at World class Cycles is hard to beat. Gatorskin is more durable for sure, but added weight and worse Crr.
-Vittoria Corsa Eva CX rolled and cornered well. Nothing bad to say. +1 on PBK. Watch for specials and free shipping...
-Tufo S3Lite (215) was a really nice feeling tire but after three pinhole punctures I gave up on them.
-Tufo S33 was so bad, slow, mushy, that I took it off after a few rides.

Seems to me cheap tubulars are pretty bad compared to the higher priced tubulars. More so than cheap clinchers vs higher priced clinchers. Again, this is all based on my experience and YMMV.
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Old 07-05-07, 10:38 PM   #4
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What I meant was that with some tires you can take a valve out put extender on it and put a valve on extender. With Sprinters you can't do it. So you have to open the valve then screw on the extender. Thus valve is always open. So if something happens to it you are SOL. For example on my front tire it has a weird tendency to close! Not sure what causes it, but it's really annoying.
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Old 07-05-07, 11:17 PM   #5
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I've got the Zipp branded tires and have the same problem with the extenders. I use Tufo extenders on my Contis (new Comps), Tufos, and Veloflex and they work great.

You can use the Tufo extreme tape with any tubular, on the Veloflex you'll need to scrape the latex coating off to get to the bare base tape. The Ritchey rims are rebranded Zipps (old style), they've had isolated incidents of the tape damaging the rim on removal, but I've used it on several Zipps and rebrands (and Reynolds) with no problems. IMHO it's much better than glue for adhesion and heat tolerance, I've seen tires rolled with any variety of glues including mastic. If you do go mastic do some research on what you're getting, the new VOC lite stuff is supposedly a poor substitute.

I've had excellent luck with the Tofu S3's and the sealant, actually put around 900 training miles on one set with no flats. Did flat in a race with one once. Put a lot of racing miles on them. Downside is they cannot be repaired.

Veloflex carbons: got a set on my crit bike, zero issues so far, managed to crack two 404's without flatting the tire. Corner well.

Conti Comps with Vectran: Tube failed at Mt. Hood. Loved the tire up to that point, rolled great (the Vectran belting is supposed to get the RR in the Veloflex number range), cornered well. Lighter than any of the tires mentioned here other than the S3's.

I've tried several Vittorias. Both they and the Zipps are lumpy compared to the three above. Thailand quality vs. the Euros. Probably end up dumping the Zipps and using Veloflex on the TT bike, or Conti's if my next go around with them doesn't include a tube failure.
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Old 07-06-07, 12:07 AM   #6
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Hi Vino.
Thanks for a comprehensive post. So is my understanding correct you can use Tufo extreme tape with Contis without scrapping stuff from the base tape, and you can unscrew the valve so you can use Tufo extenders?

Thank You.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
I've got the Zipp branded tires and have the same problem with the extenders. I use Tufo extenders on my Contis (new Comps), Tufos, and Veloflex and they work great.

You can use the Tufo extreme tape with any tubular, on the Veloflex you'll need to scrape the latex coating off to get to the bare base tape. The Ritchey rims are rebranded Zipps (old style), they've had isolated incidents of the tape damaging the rim on removal, but I've used it on several Zipps and rebrands (and Reynolds) with no problems. IMHO it's much better than glue for adhesion and heat tolerance, I've seen tires rolled with any variety of glues including mastic. If you do go mastic do some research on what you're getting, the new VOC lite stuff is supposedly a poor substitute.

I've had excellent luck with the Tofu S3's and the sealant, actually put around 900 training miles on one set with no flats. Did flat in a race with one once. Put a lot of racing miles on them. Downside is they cannot be repaired.

Veloflex carbons: got a set on my crit bike, zero issues so far, managed to crack two 404's without flatting the tire. Corner well.

Conti Comps with Vectran: Tube failed at Mt. Hood. Loved the tire up to that point, rolled great (the Vectran belting is supposed to get the RR in the Veloflex number range), cornered well. Lighter than any of the tires mentioned here other than the S3's.

I've tried several Vittorias. Both they and the Zipps are lumpy compared to the three above. Thailand quality vs. the Euros. Probably end up dumping the Zipps and using Veloflex on the TT bike, or Conti's if my next go around with them doesn't include a tube failure.
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Old 07-06-07, 07:38 AM   #7
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I had a set of the always open valves and didn't like them, you can use the tufo or other brand(I have a set of bontrager blue ano extenders) on most tires. As for which tire, it depends on what you are going to use them for. Tufo gets a bad rap for rolling resistance but they are pretty good on flat resistance and our roads aren't buttery smooth. I run the veloflex servicio coursa but they puncture pretty easy.
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Old 07-06-07, 08:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
I was thinking of going with Tufo tires and trying their extreme tape. Anyone else uses them on Ritchey carbon rims?
Where's the thread on not using this stuff on carbon rims? Dr.Pete's maybe? I think it was just one manufacturer but a serious warning.
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Old 07-06-07, 08:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
I've tried several Vittorias. Both they and the Zipps are lumpy compared to the three above.
Haven't used the Zipps, but from the specs they seem to be identical to the Vittorias (as do the Vredestein tubies and a few others)...does this seem to be the case?
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Old 07-08-07, 11:56 AM   #10
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I have always used Vittoria Corsa CXs and been very happy with them. Currently im running Conti GP 22 black chili compound and have noticed small little cuts in the tires (this is why I stopped using Conti tubulars years ago) but the cut isnt deep enough to be much of an issue yet. I used a little tubular glue to glaze over the cut and all is well. The Conti GP 22 black chilli rolls as good as the Vittoria CX but the Vittoria CX has better wear.

Deda's high end tubular supposed to be really good but really expensive and apparently hard to find. I am going with the Veloflex carbon when my current tires die.

Ive tried the Tufo tape once and didnt feel confortable with the bond between the tire and the rim. Also getting the old tape off the rim was a PITA. I have had many road racing friends try Tufo tires including the S3 lite and the S33.... nobody really liked them. Might be better time trial tires who knows.. def not me because ive never been on a set.

Never had an issue with the "always open" valve extenders and have been usng them for over a decade. Have you had any issues?

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Old 07-08-07, 12:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popdelusions
Haven't used the Zipps, but from the specs they seem to be identical to the Vittorias (as do the Vredestein tubies and a few others)...does this seem to be the case?
The Zipp tires are made by Vittoria, and are basically Corsa Evo's with Zipp's tread design.
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Old 07-08-07, 12:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmneyDurak
Hi Vino.
Thanks for a comprehensive post. So is my understanding correct you can use Tufo extreme tape with Contis without scrapping stuff from the base tape, and you can unscrew the valve so you can use Tufo extenders?

Thank You.
Yep, the Contis have bare base tape, and the Comps I got had removable valve stems. The Veloflex had a latex over the base tape that had to be scraped off.

I've only used the Tufo Extreme tape btw. The tires are harder to get off than with any glue I've seen (this is a good thing BTW), the leftover tape residue on the rim can be warmed up on rolled off by hand. It's not a big deal. Solvents and other glue removers work poorly.

Of note: I used the Contis at several crits this weekend and they worked great, very grippy at 120 PSI.
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Old 07-08-07, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloScott
Where's the thread on not using this stuff on carbon rims? Dr.Pete's maybe? I think it was just one manufacturer but a serious warning.
Zipp is the only one who has had problems, their explanation is in their website's FAQ section. My personal feeling is that this happened to one or two Zipp rims that weren't properly laminated (air cavity or bad resin).
Some of the older Zipp rims were POS quality wise, anybody who has seen the "wavy" 303 and 404's out there and delamed braking surfaces knows...

I got hit while pulling off in a race a few months ago, the impact turned my bars 90 degrees and was quite violent. The Veloflex mounted with Tufo tape pulled off the rim for about 3". Rim was a rebranded old style (but new production) Zipp and was fine. That's about as hard/violent a test as you're going to find.
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Old 07-08-07, 01:40 PM   #14
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What are yopu going to use it for? If its criteriums, go for a wide 25-27mm tire at low pressure (90-100 psi front). Dugast makes a very expensive silk tire for over $200, a cotton in the $125 range and Conti has one for <$100.
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Old 07-08-07, 01:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPete
The Zipp tires are made by Vittoria, and are basically Corsa Evo's with Zipp's tread design.
To semi-hijack this thread; that 'tread' with the dimples seems pretty pointless to me. Does anyone have any experience with it wearing off? Cornering traction seem to be OK?
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Old 07-08-07, 02:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJamoquio
To semi-hijack this thread; that 'tread' with the dimples seems pretty pointless to me.
Zipp says 1-3 W savings. Their numbers have stood up pretty well in independent testing so far; so the question is how important is that saving to you? There's no one right answer to that.
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Old 07-08-07, 04:05 PM   #17
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The questions I ponder are:

1. At what conditions will the savings be 1-3 watts? Certainly not at unrealistically slow speeds... so say no headwind, both rims have the dimples, 700 ft above sea level, 75 degrees... when do I see 1 watt?

2. What's the cornering delta? Sure this is almost irrelevant in TT'ing, but I'm too cheap/poor to have two sets of aero wheels, and tubulars aren't the easiest thing to swap on and off.
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Old 07-09-07, 01:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinokurtov
I've had excellent luck with the Tofu S3's and the sealant, actually put around 900 training miles on one set with no flats. Did flat in a race with one once. Put a lot of racing miles on them. Downside is they cannot be repaired.
I have had some bad luck with the sealant on my Tufo S33's the first time I tried it. I found that the sealant had "hardened" in the tube somewhat and would not flow into the tire easily. I fact, it even clogged my valves so bad I couldn't put any air in.
So now I have a new set of S3 Lites <195 I'm about to mount to new set of Neutrons, but fear using the sealant.
Thoughts?
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Old 07-10-07, 05:47 PM   #19
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Conti Comps and Sprinters have removable valve cores... at least the ones that have passed through my shop.
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Old 07-11-07, 07:10 AM   #20
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I've had good luck with my Tufo S3 lites. I ride them quite often and have yet to flat. I am going to switch this winter though. I saw Conti is making a tubular version of their GP 4000 tire. Might have to check that out.
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