"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Virenque the rabbit.

Old 07-12-03, 09:24 AM
  #1  
~LongRider~
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
~LongRider~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Virenque the rabbit.

It looks like they sent Virenque out as a rabbit today. They were trying to get USPS to chase him early on. Im thinking USPS did the smart thing by just managing the time loss. They can make it back up while Virenque is suffering from todays output in future stages. As it stands, LA will be down approx. 2 1/2 minutes to him going into stage 8. What do you all think? Should they have chased him down?
~LongRider~ is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 09:33 AM
  #2  
don d.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Sorry to disagree with you but Virenque was out today to save his contract for next season. Lefevere came out before the TDF and said that if Virenque didn't do something big in the tour, his contract was in doubt for next year. Virenque's only placing all season was a 2nd in the French Nat's. He also has been a solid performer in the mountains, but I thought Virenque would try to take tomorrows stage which has more prestige.

It looks like Quickstep planned this one quite well though, sending Bettini up the road with Virenque for support at the beginning. I think LA can take 3 minutes out of Virenque in one TT, but still, 3" is alot to give an excellent climber like Virenque. Personally, I'd like to see him wear the polka dots in Paris.
 
Old 07-12-03, 09:33 AM
  #3  
Laggard
Lance Hater
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lance can easily put 2.5 minutes on him. I still don't know that there's anyone who can stay with Lance if he decides to take off on a climb. Simoni and Botero both showed today that they probably can't.
Laggard is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 09:36 AM
  #4  
~LongRider~
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
~LongRider~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I hadnt heard about the contract concerns. That makes sense. At least LA didnt have to over exert today. He pace with the larger group to conserve energy. He should get alot of it back tomorrow.
~LongRider~ is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 09:49 AM
  #5  
brent_dube
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Almost 50 riders finished in the first pack... yet Simoni was behind? What the heck happened to him?

He sure looks like he will demolish lance in the mountains....yep
brent_dube is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:06 AM
  #6  
~LongRider~
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
~LongRider~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
These were the guys who pursued with Armstrong. It is a pretty strong group.

ARMSTRONG Lance (USA, USP) 2. at 00:00:01
002 - HERAS Roberto (ESP, USP) 6. at 00:00:27
003 - BELTRAN Manuel (ESP, USP) 11. at 00:00:39
009 - RUBIERA Josť Luis (ESP, USP) 5. at 00:00:23
011 - BELOKI Joseba (ESP, ONE) 9. at 00:00:33
015 - JAKSCHE Jorg (GER, ONE) 10. at 00:00:38
028 - VINOKOUROV Alexandre (KAZ, TEL) 42. at 00:01:49
029 - ZABEL Erik (GER, TEL) 163. at 00:08:58
031 - MANCEBO Francisco (ESP, BAN) 28. at 00:01:30
037 - MERCADO Juan Miguel (ESP, BAN) 126. at 00:04:01
066 - MONCOUTIE David (FRA, COF) 83. at 00:02:37
071 - HAMILTON Tyler (USA, CSC) 39. at 00:01:45
101 - GUTIERREZ Ignacio (ESP, KEL) 172. at 00:11:31
121 - MOREAU Christophe (FRA, C.A) 56. at 00:02:03
131 - ULLRICH Jan (GER, TBI) 12. at 00:00:39
171 - MAYO Iban (ESP, EUS) 110. at 00:03:35
181 - ROUS Didier (FRA, BLB) 86. at 00:02:43
117 - ROGERS Michael (AUS, QSD) 27. at 00:01:30
061 - MILLAR David (GBR, COF) 52. at 00:02:00


Most of the big guys stayed with him.
~LongRider~ is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:10 AM
  #7  
Flaneur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Virenque deserves all the credit for making the race today, along with Bettini and Aldag. The power climbs don't really suit him, as was apparent from time to time- when Aldag rode away from him, at one point.......if he has anything left in the Pyrenees, it could get interesting (but don't bet on it!).

I know everyone is waiting for the big rendezvous tomorrow but the performance of some of the so-called favourites is limp. The conservatism they display plays right into Armstrong's hands. To not even test him on the 1st cat climb? If the right break went tomorrow, he could bluff his way half-way up the Alpe, without ever having to extend himself or his team. He looks pretty fit from here, mind but I deplore the tactics and mental fragility of his rivals; it is a measure of his dominance.

It's like an Indurain Tour.....Merckx or Hinault would have attacked today, to really demoralise them!
Flaneur is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:14 AM
  #8  
don d.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
I think Ullrich is the one to watch. He did no work on the front today. He is only 48secs down on Armstrong, and he can ride as good as if not better than Armstrong in the TT's. Heras is another one to watch. He also did no work on the front today. They may be setting him up for a stage win tomorrow, or at least a lead role in setting LA up tomorrow.
 
Old 07-12-03, 10:21 AM
  #9  
~LongRider~
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
~LongRider~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here's Simoni's result.

77th 051 SIMONI Gilberto ITA SAE at 10' 21"
~LongRider~ is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:25 AM
  #10  
Flaneur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Contrast the guts and mental powers of guys like Jimmy Casper and Tyler Hamilton, with Petacchi, doing his Cippollini impression today.......

-and they wonder why the organisers put all the smaller French teams in? (Like the same thing doesn't happen at the Giro....)
Flaneur is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:27 AM
  #11  
~LongRider~
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
~LongRider~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It makes you wonder why he even started the stage. It would be more honorable to not show.
~LongRider~ is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:41 AM
  #12  
bac
Senior Member
 
bac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,481

Bikes: Too many to list!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by ~LongRider~
Here's Simoni's result.

77th 051 SIMONI Gilberto ITA SAE at 10' 21"
I wonder if he still thinks the US Postal squad is weak? All the talk and none of the walk. He reminds me of another Italian racer by the name of Pantani.

I admire those racers who allow their legs to do the talking - the likes of Indurain and Armstrong. Their legs are much louder than the mouths of a Simoni or a Pantani.
bac is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 12:48 PM
  #13  
brent_dube
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That kind of amazes me how a rider can be so dominant in one grand tour, and so weak the next.
Makes the competition of the Giro seem pretty weak...

Originally posted by ~LongRider~
It makes you wonder why he even started the stage. It would be more honorable to not show.
I'm thinking that he got dropped VERY early, and realizing how weak for climbing he was at that time, decided to quit.

That is just my guess though (judging by the view of when he pulled off of the road.)
brent_dube is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 07:35 PM
  #14  
roadbuzz
Just ride.
 
roadbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: C-ville, Va
Posts: 3,252
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by brent_dube
That kind of amazes me how a rider can be so dominant in one grand tour, and so weak the next.
Makes the competition of the Giro seem pretty weak...
Yeah. I disagree. First, he's trained for and won a grand tour already this year. Considering he's competing against some teams that have trained for and are targeting this tour, it's not a level playing field. Plus, he burnt a lot of matches in the TTT trying to minimize losses due to a weak team. And then, too, look at some of the other "luminaries" on todays stage. Aitor Gonzalez (winner of the '02 Vuelta) 60th, He finished with Bettini, arguably the best all around cyclist in the world today, who came in 79th (after setting up Virenque's win) and Botero. Gibo has nothing to hang his head about. He finished well ahead of the "autobus" who came in around 24' down. He may be temporarily demoralized, but I doubt he has decided to quit. In fact, I'd bet he will still put in at least one remarkable mountain performance before the tour is over.

Last edited by roadbuzz; 07-12-03 at 07:40 PM.
roadbuzz is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 07:58 PM
  #15  
belfast-biker
Clydesdale, for now.
 
belfast-biker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Belfast, Sunny Northern Ireland!
Posts: 4,299

Bikes: Giant Escape M2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by ~LongRider~
As it stands, LA will be down approx. 2 1/2 minutes to him going into stage 8. What do you all think? Should they have chased him down?

Is it the whole etiquette thing coming into play here as well? To know what stages you can afford to lose, not only to conserve your energy and let your rivals burn out, but to allow the other teams and riders their time in the limelight, keep their sponsors happy, feed their kids?

I'd imagine a tour that would be dominated by USPS/Armstrong at this stage, would a: be boring and b: not do any favours to the image of Lance in France...
__________________
Fat man trying to reform. slowly. :)
START 330lbs
NOW 286lbs
TARGET 168lbs
belfast-biker is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 08:32 PM
  #16  
brent_dube
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by roadbuzz
Yeah. I disagree. First, he's trained for and won a grand tour already this year. Considering he's competing against some teams that have trained for and are targeting this tour, it's not a level playing field.
That is what I would be thinking... but by the way he talked about the Tour, it seemed like it was his main goal for the year. Especially with comments about Lance not racing in the other grand tours... it makes it sound like a rider should be able to ride the giro and still be completely ready for the TDF.
brent_dube is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 09:06 PM
  #17  
Captain Crunch
Mad For Marinoni !!!
 
Captain Crunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Matheson, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Lance knows his competition better than anyone and he did not think that Simoni was going to be any threat and that is exactly what has happened. He knows who the real players are and who he needs to watch out for. He is possibly the smartest cyclist out there and is also on one of the smartest teams with the craftiest Director Sportif in the business.
Captain Crunch is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:22 PM
  #18  
wabbit
Sprockette
 
wabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had a feeling simoni might find the alps to be too much, but I think it was more the heat than the climbing. The dolomites in may are not the alps in July! I was hoping he'd be in the great form he was in during the giro, too bad he just blew a gasket, but he's never done the tour! I think it's unfair to say he's all talk. The guy's won the giro TWICE, it's not like he's some loser. My guess is he was unprepared for the heat, it was brutally hot on the climb today. Garzelli did well today, showing up out of nowhere!
__________________
You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's great...if you want to attract vermin.
wabbit is offline  
Old 07-12-03, 10:58 PM
  #19  
brent_dube
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by wabbit
I had a feeling simoni might find the alps to be too much, but I think it was more the heat than the climbing. The dolomites in may are not the alps in July! I was hoping he'd be in the great form he was in during the giro, too bad he just blew a gasket, but he's never done the tour! I think it's unfair to say he's all talk. The guy's won the giro TWICE, it's not like he's some loser. My guess is he was unprepared for the heat, it was brutally hot on the climb today. Garzelli did well today, showing up out of nowhere!
He might have better days to come.
Remember the first mountain stage in the 02 vuelta? Heras was dropped quickly I think... yet he ended up dominating the mountains later in the race.
brent_dube is offline  
Old 07-13-03, 01:51 AM
  #20  
Rossgo
Member
 
Rossgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by ~LongRider~
It looks like they sent Virenque out as a rabbit today. They were trying to get USPS to chase him early on. Im thinking USPS did the smart thing by just managing the time loss.
They also gained alot of time as the peleton had to stop for a Train which gave the break about 1 minute.
Rossgo is offline  
Old 07-13-03, 05:23 AM
  #21  
roadbuzz
Just ride.
 
roadbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: C-ville, Va
Posts: 3,252
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally posted by belfast-biker
Is it the whole etiquette thing coming into play here as well? To know what stages you can afford to lose, not only to conserve your energy and let your rivals burn out, but to allow the other teams and riders their time in the limelight, keep their sponsors happy, feed their kids?

I'd imagine a tour that would be dominated by USPS/Armstrong at this stage, would a: be boring and b: not do any favours to the image of Lance in France...
I don't think this one is etiquette. I think it's more about timing and pacing. There are a lot of mountain stages yet to go, so evaluate the risk and the strength of your top rider and his mountain domestiques and make the call. Plus, the yellow jersey is pretty "heavy." The posties get enough attention without adding to it just yet. Part of a winning strategy is not being lured off your game plan.

Finally, in my opinion, this is exactly the time to send out a rider to make a statement and scoop up some points. Virenque is French, he's retiring, he's an excellent climber. He'll garner a lot of fan support and media attention. Sponsors will be happy! Will he win the GC? It's doubtful. Polka dot jersey? Maybe. Also, I think Quick-Step has a shot at winning the team competition, which goes virtually unnoticed but has a better pay-off than the yellow.
roadbuzz is offline  
Old 07-13-03, 05:40 AM
  #22  
RiPHRaPH
Don't Believe the Hype
 
RiPHRaPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: chicagoland area
Posts: 2,668

Bikes: 1999 Steelman SR525, 2002 Lightspeed Ultimate, 1988 Trek 830, 2008 Scott Addict

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i even found myself rooting for the french rider. lance is as sly as a fox. he already knows what his cumulative time for the entire tour will be and is pacing himself. i think that the field is psychologically beat already. but remember, despite some small tune-up's, lance is geared toward this race. many of the other european riders ride in many races and it takes its toll.
i'm not a lance basher, and while i find his comments and attitude distasteful (see the Outside magazine interview from a few months ago) he is an american and i would love to see 5.

nevertheless, it was a great victory for Virenque, and he may wear yellow (and polka) for a day or two or three. he must be on a high. he is an instant legand. He is the only person to have beaten lance on this day.
RiPHRaPH is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.