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Another TT position review

Old 07-28-07, 03:17 PM
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Another TT position review

Ok, this position is the best I've had. Just before these shots were taken, I set my PR on the 8-mile TT (18:30 @ 25.9mph). This beat my previous by 21 seconds, mostly thanks to the stretching I started a week ago.

I'm now able to ramp my power continuously, started at LTHR, and finished the TT at 6 beats below MHR, flying along at 31mph up the last hill. So, the position feels awesome.

I would like to get my shoulders lower, but I'm not going to make those changes to this bike -- as the road position is perfect for me.

Anyway, what do you guys think? We didn't have a lot of time to take shots. I'm on the same part of the saddle I usually ride -- that FastForward seatpost gives me an extra 6-7cm forward. I'm on the tip, but not way way out there.







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Old 07-28-07, 03:25 PM
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How do you get any power with your legs extended that far? You've got no bend at the knee and I can't imagine how you turn the cranks faster than 60 rpms. Are you a pointy toe down rider?
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Old 07-28-07, 03:26 PM
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My first impression is that your leg is over extended. You should have a bit more of a bend, you heal isn't totally level and you still have little bend in your knee.
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Old 07-28-07, 03:37 PM
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IMHO I think you should suck it up and get a pro fit. While there are many knowledgeable posters here, photos are not a substitute for an in-person fit.
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Old 07-28-07, 03:57 PM
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I would agree: saddle seems high (from what I've been told through my own long thread and my own experience riding the bike) from those photos. Otherwise it doesn't look bad. But here's the problem with trying to dial in a TT bike fit from photos: to do it most effectively you need to know how your position impacts your wattage output. That's why I'm shopping around for a shop to do that fit analysis (on a trainer with a Power Meter) now. My position looks and feels pretty good, but it's not hard to get it wrong from everything I gather. I'm getting my own power meter soon, so I may be able to dial things in better on my own with that information.

All that being said, just ride. Get on your TT bike and ride it hard, do a couple of TT's, ask for opinions from other TT participants.
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Old 07-28-07, 03:59 PM
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I'd agree that your saddle looks too high. But if it works for you an you have no pain anywhere, it may be fine for you. Also, as you stated, you could come down a little on the front end.

I'd like to see a pic under power though too.
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Old 07-28-07, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
IMHO I think you should suck it up and get a pro fit. While there are many knowledgeable posters here, photos are not a substitute for an in-person fit.
You are right on both counts. I do pro fits but when I want to get fit I go to Sean Ahmadi, and suggest that Watterrockets does the same.
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Old 07-28-07, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
But here's the problem with trying to dial in a TT bike fit from photos: to do it most effectively you need to know how your position impacts your wattage output. That's why I'm shopping around for a shop to do that fit analysis (on a trainer with a Power Meter) now.
That's very dangerous. Adaptation to a new position over time means the power lost to the new low drag position is usually recovered after riding in it for a while. Choosing a position to maximize current power/drag might be sacrificing speed which would be recovered after adjusting to a new position.
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Old 07-28-07, 06:15 PM
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Great, thanks for the tips.

Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
How do you get any power with your legs extended that far? You've got no bend at the knee and I can't imagine how you turn the cranks faster than 60 rpms. Are you a pointy toe down rider?
I TT at 95-110 RPM. Power-wise it feels great -- this position is extremely comfortable now that I'm stretching. Doing intervals on it this week, I was dusting my training partners who usually keep up a little longer -- so the power must be there. I raised the saddle a bit because it was so low that my knees were hurting, and I had just moved the saddle forward 3cm.

I'll try to feel the leg extension a little more next time I'm out. I have reviewed it with several fast time-trialists in person, and everyone seems to like how I'm sitting, other than shoulder height.

I'd love to go do a fit, but I think I'd rather wait until I get a TT bike where I can drop the bars 3cm or so. I might look into some new bars that will lower the pads -- the AirStrykes are pretty far off the bars.
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Old 07-28-07, 06:39 PM
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Looks pretty damn dialed in to me.

if you drop the bars, even if you don't drop the bars, try bringing them in just a bit, you may find you can breathe a bit easier, might not..
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Old 07-28-07, 07:13 PM
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It looks like you have fuzzy legs. Shave them to gain speed.

A picture at max output would help.

http://biketechreview.com/phpBB2/vie...a629d91f626b97

These guys would probably help you more than here...
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Old 07-28-07, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
That's very dangerous. Adaptation to a new position over time means the power lost to the new low drag position is usually recovered after riding in it for a while. Choosing a position to maximize current power/drag might be sacrificing speed which would be recovered after adjusting to a new position.
Climbing Mt. Everest is very dangerous. Changing your bike position is not.
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Old 07-29-07, 10:09 AM
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pics of you off the bike? (EDIT** Just the bike not just you ) What kind of seatpost is that?
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Old 07-29-07, 12:55 PM
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I hate the way it looks with this post and aero bars, but from the road, it all comes together just great.

I have a Profile FastForward seatpost and an old saddle mated permanently in my bike bag. When TT time comes, I swap post/saddle combo really quick and mount the aero bars. 5 minutes to a dramatically different position.

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Old 07-29-07, 04:43 PM
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greg lemond called....he wants his gear back
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Old 07-29-07, 06:29 PM
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What size is that frame?

But don't feel bad. I met a guy at the LBS today who is looking to get a 66cm custom frame built for him.
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Old 07-29-07, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pcates View Post
greg lemond called....he wants his gear back
You mean the gear he used to set the fastest Tour TT speed for 14 years?

Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
What size is that frame?

But don't feel bad. I met a guy at the LBS today who is looking to get a 66cm custom frame built for him.
62cm, and I have an MTB seatpost because the standard road length posts are too short.

I certainly don't feel bad about the frame size. I just wish I didn't have to hack a TT position into a road frame like that, but it works for me (other than shoulder height). I want my next cycling cash to go towards a power meter, not another bike.

Everyone here knows I don't put much stake in equipment, and frequently whoop guys on much much "nicer" gear in races. Still, it's a handmade frame (brazed by TR himself), running a Dura-Ace gruppo, and meticulously handmade wheels -- so I'm not exactly slumming
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Old 07-30-07, 12:29 AM
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I'd say, legs over extended I think. To test this sit on the bike put your heals on the peddles and peddle backwards - if there is an rotation of your hips you sitting too high.
Also is that saddle legal? looks too far forward to conform to UCI regs (still if you ain't riding to UCI regs don't worry _
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Old 07-30-07, 06:43 AM
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Yeah, when I set up the position, I was chuckling because the saddle tip is 2cm behind the spindle. Way ahead of UCI's 5cm

I'll be reviewing the saddle height on my ride today. I can pedal backwards on my heels with stable hips though, but I don't put much stake in that test because varying cleat/pedal interfaces and sole designs will mean the relative length varies a lot from system to system.
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Old 07-30-07, 07:51 AM
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You know, I just realized that my hips are rotated to my right because I'm leaning against that tree. This makes my saddle look about 1cm higher. Still, I'll take a look at the saddle height today.

I didn't include this photo originally because I was leaning so hard:

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Old 07-30-07, 11:57 AM
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^^^ Egads man -- a bit of warning first!
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Old 07-30-07, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ericcox View Post
^^^ Egads man -- a bit of warning first!
Hey, at least they're not white. My wife was extremely embarrassed taking that shot. Actually, all the shots, but she took solace in how embarrassed I must be leaning against a tree in our cul d'sac wearing that getup.

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Old 07-30-07, 12:15 PM
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Yes, thank you for wearing black shorts. I have personally given up all hope at modesty myself in that I now change into riding gear in my office before heading off on rides. We have two great administrative assistants who enjoy giving me grief on my attire.

Oh and your leg looks overextended to me as well. But then, I run my saddle a tad low to help ward off a knee problem.
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Old 07-30-07, 12:47 PM
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Yeah, I dropped the saddle by 5mm and it felt ok. I did some 1-minute intervals in the bars, and I was finding that under that much power I was lifting right off the saddle, by 1/2" or so. It was still beneath me, so it didn't go swinging or anything.

Anyone else come off their saddle in a TT position under max power?

I think in a road position I am able to lower my elbows and pull from lower (the drops) and that prevents it. Maybe I am just getting pointy-toed, but I tried to notice, and I felt flat footed.

I'll tell you what though, if you wanna feel good about how fast you are, go do intervals on your TT bike sometimes. Smokin'
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