urbanknight

Short version: Just answer the poll

Long version:

So I'm thinking about getting back into racing, and would like to buy or build up a set of race wheels and use my current wheels for training and race spares. When I raced in the 90's tubulars were the thing to race on and there was a decent selection of lightweight and deep section rims. Now I can't seem to find anything worthwhile aside from pricey carbon rims. Is it becoming more common to race on clinchers or is everybody really spending $1000+ on a set of wheels? I mean, we're talking weekend warrior Cat 4, so I can't justify making that huge of an investment on a hobby... at least not yet.

I also came up with this question: Do you really need carbon specific brake pads for carbon rims? Alternatively, can you use carbon pads on aluminum rims? Even if I did spring for a set of carbon rims, I can't imagine swapping brake pads every time I have a race coming up.

Cleave

Hi urbanknight,

Looks like I'm the first to vote for tubulars. I've always raced on tubulars and I used to have a lightweight set and a spare, heavier set before good, lightweight clinchers became widely available (mid 1980s). I started one race in my life on clinchers and I almost bit it big time when I hit something on a 40+ MPH decent and pinch flatted both tires. (Long story on why I decided to use clinchers in the first place.)

From what I can tell, building a set of lightweight tubulars will be difficult because of the scarcity of rims. I know that you can get Zipp carbon rims but the cost savings seems to be minimal -- especially if you get someone to build them for you.

My suggestion is to try to get some end of season deal on some good race wheels and only use them for racing. I bought my 2002 Zipp 303 wheels in Feb 2003. I've used them for all of my racing except TTs and they are still in great shape. I have to touch them up once in a while but otherwise they run very straight.

They are the most expensive wheels that I've ever bought but they are also the best by far.

Last, comment is that yes, if you go the expensive carbon wheel route you will need to buy carbon-specific brake pads. There are several options on how to deal with changing pads including having a set of pads mounted up on spare calipers.

Anyway, hope that something in this long post helps.

urbanknight

That helps a lot, thanks. Maybe it's because I started on the velodrome, but my racing wheels for both road and track included GEL280, GL330, and Sun Mistral rims. Nothing deep or aero (except for time trials), and those rims made some rather lightweight and strong wheels that newer wheels don't seem to compare with, and none of the pairs cost me more than $300 total.

I'll be building them myself, so that saves me some cash, and I have some Ultegra 32h hubs which is why I'd love to find something like those old school rims to use. I might just get a set of Velocity Escape rims, but 390 isn't impressive when the older rims weigh around 300.

I also have a chance to buy an older set of Mavic Cosmic wheels (aluminum deep section rims) but does anyone know how much they weigh? I'm a light, low wattage rider, so weight is more important to me than aero... I think.

urbanknight

Oh, and judging by the poll, it IS becoming more common to race on clinchers, but we'll see what the poll shows tomorrow. 'night for now.

UmneyDurak

I use 50 mm Carbon tubular wheels for crits and some road races. I feel more confident cornering on tubulars then on clinchers. As for pads yeah you need to use carbon pads on the rims. I wouldn't use the same pads on aluminum rims. Small aluminum particles would get embedded in them which will damage the carbon rims. It takes less then three minutes to swap the pads so it's not that big of a deal.

botto 

short answer: i only have clinchers.

patentcad

Tubulars. Pcads motto:

If I'm gonna blow-up,
I'll do it on a sew-up.

That is all.

CrimsonKarter21

And where is the tubeless option!?








I race on clinchers now, but I want tubulars next season.

YMCA

Never owned Tubulars.

truckin

Clinchers only- I don't have any tubulars.

MDcatV

I only own clinchers. I barely have time to lube my chain let alone change break pads, stretch tires, glue them on, wait for them to dry, etc., etc., etc. Too much of a pain in the @ss.

merlinextraligh

My "race" wheels are 303 tubulars, and I love them.

The main reason to ride tubulars these days is to take advantage of the weight savings possible with cf tubular rims (the 303's are about 1150grams.)

If you're not going CF, IMHO, there's not a big enough advantage to make it worth hassling with tubulars.
You can build up a set of clinchers that will be almost as light as a comparable tubular wheelset with an Al rim.

I do think that tubulars corner a little better, but there's certainly a fair amount of subjectivity in that assesment. They are easier to ride flat, and they resist pinch flats. Personally, none of that is enough to offset the hassles, and the expense of tubulars.

However, saving over a pound of rotating wieght with CF tubular wheels is.

ZeCanon

Take a look at Ambrosio chrono f20's for rims. I have a set built up and LOVE them. They are a bit heavier than your old GEL 280's, but they are stiffer and dish nicer with modern 10spd hubs.
btw, you can still find the GEL's around, on ebay and such. I have about 10 of them in my basement.

'nother

I have only ever ridden clinchers for road. That most likely won't change.

But I am going to look into tubies for CX, not for the weight advantage but for the fact that they can be ridden at very low pressures and are not susceptible to pinch-flatting. If I find a great deal on some I may do that but there are probably better things to throw money at.

jrennie

I race on a set of ac carbon58 tubulars for anything other than crappy roads or if there is going to be lots of downhill and possibly wet. Carbon braking and water just dont get along really well.

jit5

I race on both aluminum clinchers (Ksyrium SSC SL) and carbon clinchers ( Reynolds DV46C).

I don't bother changing pads when switching wheels. I use the SwissStop Yellow Kings which are designed for both aluminum and carbon braking surfaces. The carbon wheels show no detrimental effect from not switching pads. If you are really concerned a quick file/sanding of the pads when switching out the wheels will remove any foreign objects from the pads. The only real downside is the aluminum wears doen the pads but not at an excessive rate.

urbanknight

Want to sell any in the 32h variety?

I think there is a set of the Ambrosios on ebay right now, but once you get near 400g per rim, you're not really saving any weight, and I hate gluing tires. I do agree that tubulars corner more smoothly, but I've become more confident on clinchers lately.

Sorry about not having a tubless option. I barely even knew such a thing existed a few months ago. Is that any good for racing?

iab

Fiamme Ergal (Al) - 580 grams (for both)
AC front hub - 65 grams
AC rear hub - 205 grams
DT Swiss Competition spokes (64) - 350 grams
Nipples (brass) - 65 grams

Total - 1265 grams, 115 more than Zipp 303s and 15 more than 404s, not too shabby and I could have shaved more off with the spokes and nipples

cslone

All my race wheels are tubular and my pit/training wheels are clincher.

patentcad

My LBS says only the old racers like me are using tubulars and the New Generation are all on clinchers. My theory is that is because they are all utterly buried in student loans. Tell 'em KP.

UT_Dude

Or not.

merlinextraligh

Difference is the Zipp 303 will be a stiff, durable, fairly aero wheel.



Comparing apples to appples, you could do your same build, but substitute American Classic CR 350 rims, and only be 120 grams heavier for the clinchers.

Comparable tubular to clincher wheelsets with Al rims are going to be 100-200 grams difference with comparable tires.

Comparable tubular to clincher wheelsets with CF rims are going to be 400-500 grams difference.
Hence my point that going tubular makes a significant weight difference if your going to use CF rims.

zzzwillzzz

this is almost never true, especially in our socal races.

forget about the wheels for now and just race. if you or your team have a second set for the wheel pit that's really all that matters. right now i'm racing on basic clinchers because all my sew-ups are on outdated 8 spd hubs. i'd like a set of deep carbon wheels but it really won't help my placing, it's the decision making in my head the last couple of laps (or lapse, in my case) that's the difference between top 13 and top 3

ericm979

I've only ever ridden and races on clinchers. I started racing in the mid 80s, but the picture in Eddie B's book of the guy who wrecked because his tubular came unglued in a corner (he's sitting there in the wreckage of his bike looking really miserable) kept me off tubulars. I know I can put clinchers on and they'll stay on, but glue I am not so confident with.

Pinch flats have been rare for me and usually the result of rider error (i.e. trying to bunny-hop a wide cattle guard and coming up short). I'd only consider tubulars to get super-light yet aero wheels for special events, and even then I know that they won't make much difference in my results.

earleybird

I stopped using tubs way back in the early 80's when i watched the tub on my front wheel slowly come unglued and roll off the rim at 40mph going downhill.They were a set of Montreal Olympic tubulars (Ambrosia rims and hubs)light as a feather

It was Porlock hill a 2+ mile hill notorious in England for being a bit steep and long. I had been using the brakes heavily for 5 mins or so to try reduce my downhill speed which was creeping up to 45mph because of my weight (then about 200 lbs ) the rims got red hot and the adhesive bubbled and melted t5he tub rolled off and
I was unable to stop and came off