Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Bianchi furious at Ullrich's departure

Search
Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Bianchi furious at Ullrich's departure

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-06-03, 02:02 PM
  #1  
Still kicking.
Thread Starter
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Posts: 19,659

Bikes: Bike Count: Rising.

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 32 Posts
Bianchi furious at Ullrich's departure

Taken from www.cyclingnews.com

"Bianchi furious at Ullrich's departure
The sudden departure of Jan Ullrich back to Team Telekom has caused an angry reaction from Team Bianchi, which had counted on keeping the German for 2004. The future of the Dutch registered team without Ullrich is now very much up in the air.

"This has big consequences for us," said team manager Jacques Hanegraaf to AD. "I first have to talk with the sponsors for this changes everything. Ullrich was the reason why they put money into our team. It's a question of how much the team is worth without Jan Ullrich. That must become clear in the coming weeks."

Team Bianchi was formed out of the ashes of Team Coast, which collapsed earlier this year due to financial reasons. The team contested the Tour de France, where a rejuvenated Ullrich came the closest he has since 1997 of winning the Tour, eventually finishing second behind Lance Armstrong. Shortly after the Tour, Telekom renewed its interest in Der Jan, eventually convincing him to sign last weekend.

"I find it at the very least a little strange that Telekom approached Jan for a contract after the Tour," added Hanegraaf. "We had everything ready here for Jan, we have brought him back to the top and then this happens."

From Bianchi, Ullrich is also taking Tobias Steinhauser, Andrea Korff and Rudy Pevenage back to Telekom, although Pevenage will have to play a role as Ullrich's personal advisor rather than as a team director. "


A possible rivalry between Team Bianchi and Telekon in the making?
__________________
Appreciate the old bikes more than the new.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 10-06-03, 02:54 PM
  #2  
Lance Hater
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Perhaps Bianchi should have given better support to Ulrich.

Vino's the one that is really hurt by this transaction.

Telekom looks to be pretty darn strong next year.
Laggard is offline  
Old 10-06-03, 02:57 PM
  #3  
Ink-Stained Wretch
 
pinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Holyoke, MA
Posts: 1,731
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rivalry? Who else is Bianchi going to sign that will allow them to compete with Telekom's squad? Wonder how much of Ulrich's leaving has to do with the final TT in the TdF when he kept trying to get the coach's car to back off?
pinky is offline  
Old 10-06-03, 04:07 PM
  #4  
Knight Rider
 
SirSpinsalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Monroe, Georgia
Posts: 118

Bikes: CAAD 3 Cannondale MTB, CAAD4 Roadbike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why would a business become enraged over a smart business decision. Ullrich will need the stregnth of a team like Telecom to beat Lance. Small chance of Bianchi becoming a serious team by next TDF.
SirSpinsalot is offline  
Old 10-06-03, 04:49 PM
  #5  
newbie newbie
 
georgesnatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Happy to be in FLORIDA
Posts: 633

Bikes: Titanium Indy Fab 29" mtb

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The Telekom you see today is not the Telekom you will see tomorrow. Yeah, Zabel will stay but what about the rest of the stars/leaders? Do you really think that Vinokourov, Evans, Botero etc will be water carriers for Ullrich?
georgesnatcher is offline  
Old 10-06-03, 06:34 PM
  #6  
Just ride.
 
roadbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: C-ville, Va
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Laggard
Perhaps Bianchi should have given better support to Ulrich.
No fair!

Under the circumstances that the team was formed, I don't think they can be faulted. Remember, they had to sell the ranch just to get Ullrich. They were scarcely able to put together sponsorship in what time they had. Coast had a pretty decent stable, but after the second suspension, the unpaid riders couldn't possibly justify staying aboard the burning ship. Ultimately, it was so late in the season, Bianchi would have been hard pressed to do better than they did. If anyone is to blame, it's Jan... he had offers to ride for much stronger teams, albeit not for the amount of money he wanted. Remember, too, that at the time he was a pig in a poke.
roadbuzz is offline  
Old 10-06-03, 08:09 PM
  #7  
Crank Crushing Redneck
 
SamDaBikinMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: A van down by the river.
Posts: 2,600

Bikes: Bikes are environmentally damaging

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ullrich is a ****ing traitor. After the strings that were pulled and all the juggling acts to get Bianchi team going and be invited to the tour he up and jumps ship. What a useless sack of $h!t. I really hope Lance burns him and his team up and grinds their bones into dust next year.

I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

Hopefully the good riders will leave Telecom for other teams where they can compete for their own position and leave Jan with a bunch of pack fodder that can barely hang in the peloton.
SamDaBikinMan is offline  
Old 10-06-03, 09:40 PM
  #8  
Spinmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tempe,AZ
Posts: 623

Bikes: Scattante Carbon, Full Ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In case you didnt notice, that seemed to be the group of riders Jan was riding with in the tour. How many times do you recall seeing another celeste jersey pulling Jan or covering attacks? As I count, zero. Hell, they didnt even warn him about some of the turns, remember the final time trial crash? You are basically faulting him for going to a team that will better help him accomplish his goal of dethroning armstrong. You would rather him stay on a team with sub-par help just so he honors some imaginary pact with bianchi? Team Telekom isnt now assigned to death because Jan is back. He is hardly going to be riding in every race telekom enters, trying to take sprints from zabel or hindering vino in the classics and such. I see it more as a Postal setup. Top men who do their own thing but come July its all work for one man. I say Jan made the smart decision and one that is probably making LA sweat just a little.
TriDevil is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 12:35 AM
  #9  
Off like a prom dress...
 
Ba-Dg-Er's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Arizona
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SamDaBikinMan
Ullrich is a ****ing traitor. After the strings that were pulled and all the juggling acts to get Bianchi team going and be invited to the tour he up and jumps ship. What a useless sack of $h!t. I really hope Lance burns him and his team up and grinds their bones into dust next year.

I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

Hopefully the good riders will leave Telecom for other teams where they can compete for their own position and leave Jan with a bunch of pack fodder that can barely hang in the peloton.
Cycling is a team sport and Bianchi proved to be a weak team so Ullrich made a career minded decision.

The same could be said for any other athlete that leaves a weak team for a stronger one, or even an employee who leaves a company that hired him/her with no experience and goes on to a bigger better company and uses that experience.

Lance would do the same thing if Postal didn't offer him the support they do. Any rider would. Settle down.
Ba-Dg-Er is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 05:35 AM
  #10  
One day at a time
 
chaztrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Des Moines Iowa
Posts: 145

Bikes: Specialized Allez Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by pinky
Rivalry? Who else is Bianchi going to sign that will allow them to compete with Telekom's squad? Wonder how much of Ulrich's leaving has to do with the final TT in the TdF when he kept trying to get the coach's car to back off?

Did I miss this? Did Ulrich ever say anything about this?
chaztrip is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 08:01 AM
  #11  
Lance Hater
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't think he ever mentioned the team car that was 10 feet off his rear wheel. I think he's got too much class to publicly ***** about his team.

It was obvious though that he didn't have the best director in the peloton nor did he have the strongest team support. Not being told about a dangerous corner was but one example of this. On the other hand, Lance did the course before the TT and knew about it. Jan didn't. And I don't quite know who if anyone told him to attack on the 2nd to last climb on stage 15 in the TDF. It may have been his own idea or it may have been the directors. The fact that Jan is not know for being the greatest tactical rider leads me to believe the former.
Laggard is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 08:54 AM
  #12  
newbie newbie
 
georgesnatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Happy to be in FLORIDA
Posts: 633

Bikes: Titanium Indy Fab 29" mtb

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If I'm not mistaken the person trying to give Jan a prostate exam with the car during the TT was Pevenage. Strange, if that was an issue why is he taking him to Telekom?
georgesnatcher is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 09:00 AM
  #13  
Lance Hater
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,403
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I can't belive that "bit*h" is a censored word on this board.
Laggard is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 03:33 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
~LongRider~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by SamDaBikinMan
I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

.
Many of us had Nazi family members. My last name is (Ruge) by the way. Thats the equivalent of (Smith), in german. I fail to recognize the significance of that? Jan wants to win. With a stronger team, who can deny that he could have won last TDF? He is doing what he feels is right for him. Telekom is more the traitor. They are a traitor to the current team. Ulrich will change everything there. I would love to see them work it out, where they could keep the top riders that are there currently. I dont see that happening though.
~LongRider~ is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 06:32 PM
  #15  
suitcase of courage
 
VegasCyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SoCal (ex Las Vegas, NV)
Posts: 1,010
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
IMHO Jan has to go his own way, and if he can live with himself after he leaves a team which really worked hard to get something together for the TDF then I guess he can go. Telekom (which I thought was going to be called t-mobile from now on?) will be a strong team no doubt, however my question is if Bianchi will even remain a team for next year? who knows.... all sports have controversy I guess
__________________
-VegasCyclist
"Daddy made whiskey and he made it well.... cost two dollars and it burned like hell...."
Register!
VegasCyclist is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 06:41 PM
  #16  
Off like a prom dress...
 
Ba-Dg-Er's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Arizona
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
And I am certain Bianchi as a sponsor got no benefit from crowds of people seeing him on their bike and wearing their jerseys. A number of people purchased Bianchi jerseys and perhaps even bikes due to their exposure in the Tour de France this year. This is all that could truly be expected of Jan and he did the team and the sponsors proud with his performance.

Bianchi has secured nothing since the end of the Tour and could have easily fell into the same pit that Coast did this year. Then where would he have been. This was a smart business and career move no matter how you look at it, and no one has any right to be upset because in Jan's shoes anyone would have done the same thing.
Ba-Dg-Er is offline  
Old 10-07-03, 09:11 PM
  #17  
Geezer Member
 
Grampy™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 1,384

Bikes: Airborne, LeMond, Bianchi CX, Volae Century, Redline 925 (fixed) and a Burley Tandem.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by SamDaBikinMan
Ullrich is a ****ing traitor. After the strings that were pulled and all the juggling acts to get Bianchi team going and be invited to the tour he up and jumps ship. What a useless sack of $h!t. I really hope Lance burns him and his team up and grinds their bones into dust next year.

I was beginning to admire Ulrich but now want his @ss nailed to the cross for treason. He must be a descendant of some major Nazi family.

Hopefully the good riders will leave Telecom for other teams where they can compete for their own position and leave Jan with a bunch of pack fodder that can barely hang in the peloton.

I'm not sure I'd put it quite this harshly, but agree in principle. It's part of the "Team Leader's" responsibility to Make the team strong. Imho. Not look for a strong team and jump ship.

Last April/May/June who wanted Jan? Bianchi bailed his posterior out, he should show some loyalty.
Grampy™ is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 12:47 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Revenig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Denver, Colorado area
Posts: 202
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
With the addition of Ullrich, won't this bring added stress to T-Mobile to work hard on the flat stages for Zabel and then turn around and work hard for Ullrich in the mountain stages? I've only watched four Grand Tours so far and I'm wondering which teams have or had a successful GC contender and a successful sprinter at the same time?
Revenig is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 05:34 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Ba-Dg-Er
Cycling is a team sport and Bianchi proved to be a weak team so Ullrich made a career minded decision.

The same could be said for any other athlete that leaves a weak team for a stronger one, or even an employee who leaves a company that hired him/her with no experience and goes on to a bigger better company and uses that experience.

Lance would do the same thing if Postal didn't offer him the support they do. Any rider would. Settle down.

When Michael Schumacher went to Ferarri, Ferarri had not won a world championship in over 20 years. Michael was offered the opportunity to select who he wanted around him to develop the team, then develop the cars and engines, then go win.

Ullrich may have had that opportunity with Bianchi. How about building the team up rather than running off? Some people are not leaders, but just really good riders.

Lance and Bruyneel decide who rides for Postal. "The support" you refer to is mostly Lance deciding who gets on the team. Lance controls a lot of what goes on there and his efforts provide a lot of jobs. It is not magic. And since Lance wins, lots of companies want to provide sponsorship to help so that they can sign the best riders. Like Coast rider Beltran.

Who would you rather ride for? Armstrong or Ullrich?

See the difference? There is a reason why some riders seem to be on the lower steps of the podium most of the time when it counts.

BTW...I suspect that, if not for Bianchi, Ullrich would be eating strudel and looking like Jabba the Hut.

Funny how Telekom was not interested when Jan was in trouble. Hopefully, he can make it through the off-season, intact.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 05:40 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Ba-Dg-Er
Bianchi has secured nothing since the end of the Tour
Neither has Postal.

Hopefully, you are not putting them in the same boat.

The issue is that Lance puts his team together and wins. Jan goes where the money is, hopes for the best with the team and watches Lance win.

One controls his environment.

One is controlled by his environment.

See the difference?
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 07:10 AM
  #21  
One day at a time
 
chaztrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Des Moines Iowa
Posts: 145

Bikes: Specialized Allez Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok so Jan goes where the money is? Forgive as I am not as keen to this sport as some.. but did not his team let him down in some respects Like the ITT and not telling him about the conditions?? and the coach/manager? is it really all about the money for Jan? or is REALLY trying to win?

I think with all the offseason moves here Tyler moving and Jan to try and "better their chances" is just going to motivate Lance all that much more. I say Lance still wins next year
__________________
"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever."
-Lance Armstrong
chaztrip is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 10:33 AM
  #22  
Off like a prom dress...
 
Ba-Dg-Er's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Arizona
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Neither has Postal.
They aready have a solid team and sponsers secured .... Lance has built that over the years. Certainly Ullrich could have stayed with Bianchi and tried the same thing and maybe he should have since Telekom dumped him last year. But the fact is that Bianchi could have ended their sponsorship just as Coast did and I think Ullrich felt he had more security with a tried and true team like Telekom.
Ba-Dg-Er is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 10:44 AM
  #23  
newbie newbie
 
georgesnatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Happy to be in FLORIDA
Posts: 633

Bikes: Titanium Indy Fab 29" mtb

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think Jan just wants to be with a German team. I can't blame him, makes sense to me. When Jan originally left Telekom everyone said he's going to CSC, wrong. He went to Coast, which at least at that time was a German team. When Coast imploded he was left with an Italian sponsor, a German registered team and mainly Spanish riders. Now he returns to Telekom/T-Mobile. What does he have? What he wanted all along, a German team, a German sponsor, and a lot of German riders.
georgesnatcher is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 01:00 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
lotek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Posts: 17,687

Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by chaztrip
but did not his team let him down in some respects Like the ITT and not telling him about the conditions?? and the coach/manager?
And who was in the car behind Jan? Rudy Pevanage who he is dragging around
to every team he goes to. The team didn't let Jan down in the ITT, the Director
Sportif (Pevenage?) knew who had fallen and where.
The difference here is pretty clear, Lance got up and drove the course with
Bruyneel, Jan slept in and watched a video of the course (while eating strudel
und Schnitzel und lots of wurst? ). as stated above one controls his environment one is controlled by it.
Jan
Marty
__________________
Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.


Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
lotek is offline  
Old 10-08-03, 05:24 PM
  #25  
Off like a prom dress...
 
Ba-Dg-Er's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Arizona
Posts: 350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
From CyclingNews ...

Der Jan is back in the fold

After spending a year out of competition and a year riding for another team, Jan Ullrich has returned to the team where he spent almost the entire length of his career: Team Telekom, which will be renamed T-Mobile in 2004. The 1997 Tour winner and reigning Olympic champion closed a three year deal on Saturday reported to be worth €2.5 million a year. But it wasn't just the money that attracted Jan back to the Telekom fold - the security and strength of the big budget German team were of equal importance, as Ullrich wants to have everything in order for his assault on next year's Tour de France and beyond.

At a press conference in Bonn today, Ullrich answered journalists' questions and discussed his future goals. The deciding factor on his return to Telekom? "Actually I've finished second in the Tour de France too often," laughed Ullrich. "Jokes aside, I really want to tackle the next few years properly, and for that I simply need a team that supports me and can motivate me as well. Now I have the strongest team in the world behind me. I am certain that my return to Telekom was the correct thing to do.

Ullrich didn't consider this year wasted however. "I needed the trip to Coast and Bianchi to mature," he said. "I wanted to do things differently than 2002, to experience new things and perhaps to broaden my horizons. The step was crucially important for me. Now I see cycling with completely different eyes and know that I can win the Tour again."

Ullrich believes that it will be easy to fit in with his former teammates, especially Erik Zabel and Alexandre Vinokourov "who have always asked me when I'm coming back. I don't think there will be any problems in future because I have the feeling that the boys are happy to have me back in the ranks. In the Tour, we will be even more unpredictable for Lance Armstrong, because we have several people who can threaten him. I think he'll have to change his tactics a bit. That's a big advantage for us."

Speaking of the Tour, it's not the only thing on Ullrich's mind for 2004. "I also have the Olympic Games in Athens in focus. There I want to defend the gold medal I won three years ago in the road race in Sydney. Those that know me, know I am always in top form in the weeks after the Tour."

As for his new team director Walter Godefroot, Ullrich said that "Walter always believed in me and left the door open. That meant a lot to me." Also, "My girlfriend Gaby stood fully behind me. She has also had a tough time and is now happy that we have security in the next three years."

The future is not yet clear for Jan's mentor for the past nine years Rudy Pevenage, who has been offered a contract by Jan as a personal advisor, but not formal position within T-Mobile. "Everyone knows that I have collaborated with him well for nine years and he has also had a big share in my successes. Rudy must now decide whether he wants to go further."
Ba-Dg-Er is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.