Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

pwnd by a team that didn't even podium

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

pwnd by a team that didn't even podium

Old 05-17-08, 06:52 PM
  #1  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
pwnd by a team that didn't even podium

Bear Creek Crit in Houston, M35+.

Botto version: 7th place... and see title

Medium version: 15 racers showed up, three of them are known heavy hitters (I'm not in this group). Seven of them are on the same team -- everyone else is solo (including me). The big team answered everything, attacked every time breaks came back, got 2 guys in the final break, and couldn't podium. I couldn't make the break.

Longer version:
Man. McKinney Velo showed up with seven racers... Me and two other essentially unattached riders (Schaefer, Ashe) took turns attacking and responding to MKV.

I did a lot of work. A lot. After 38 minutes, Schaefer started the real break, the known badass sprinter got in with him with two MKV riders, and they were gone. I was completely blown and had to just recover. Ashe took two MONSTER laps and was gaining on the break, but we couldn't help him.

It was one of those days, where you ride aggressively as you can, and run out of matches before anything is established. I had half the riders pat me on the back afterwards for riding so aggressively. Yay.

I got 7th with a field sprint, getting around an MKV intentional gap.

Those guys were frustrating, but rode it the way they should have. None of them were actually that strong (couldn't podium from the break), but they just attacked enough that it required a response. We'd let them dangle out there, then counter attack, but they could always get the draft.

Holy hell, that was tough. I actually just dropped my FTP estimate to 330W (I think the 20m tests are invalid for me because of AWC influence -- even with MonodCP). So, here it is:

Code:
    Duration:      58:13
    Work:          966 kJ
    TSS:           96.5 (intensity factor 0.997)
    Norm Power:    329
    VI:            1.19
    Distance:      24.903 mi
            Min    Max    Avg
    Power:           0    1358    276     watts
    Cadence:         21    141    88     rpm
    Speed:           2.4    35.5    25.7     mph
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-17-08, 07:18 PM
  #2  
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,711

Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2252 Post(s)
At least it wasn't boring, right, WR?

Nice job. And nice stats.
__________________
"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline  
Old 05-17-08, 07:24 PM
  #3  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
No, not boring. It was quite fun, but I haven't been that close to falling OTB in a looooong time -- just for about 2 minutes after I burned my last match.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-17-08, 09:33 PM
  #4  
Nickel
Splicer of Molecules
 
Nickel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A less cold place
Posts: 1,723

Bikes: Giant

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's fun to push the pain and suffering to new levels.
Nickel is offline  
Old 05-17-08, 09:55 PM
  #5  
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Posts: 20,247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Nice job!

It's races like this where you probably learn the most, eh?
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 05-17-08, 10:06 PM
  #6  
ravenmore
Senior Member
 
ravenmore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
I actually just dropped my FTP estimate to 330W (I think the 20m tests are invalid for me because of AWC influence -- even with MonodCP). So, here it is:
Great post until you quit speaking English there at the end.

j/k! Sounds like a fun race.
ravenmore is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 12:08 AM
  #7  
urbanknight
In beaurocratic limbo
 
urbanknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 22,456

Bikes: Specialized Allez, K2 Razorback

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I didn't read the long version, but only 15 people showed up? I haven't seen a 15 person field since junior racing!!! The last 3 races I've done have been full 100 person fields... even on a 0.4 mile crit course!
urbanknight is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 12:40 AM
  #8  
merckx89
getting dropped
 
merckx89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: pasadena ca
Posts: 917

Bikes: cannondale super six, KHS 100 fixed, P3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
At state championships this year I was watching one of the finishes of the races and 9 out of the 10 people in it were from 1 team, 1 unattached guy. Guess who won... mister unattached. The announcer told him at the start of the race if he won he would chip in an extra 20 the the prize money, looked really surprised when he pulled it off.
http://scnca.com/schedule2008.asp?ca...tate+RR&rank=3
merckx89 is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 04:37 AM
  #9  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Yeah, I'm surprised there wasn't a bigger turnout. $100 for first, cash 6 deep. Today is the Houston Grand Crit, and there were a lot more pre-regs, so it will be a much bigger field ($325 for first...).

Houston racing != Austin racing, it seems. I have heard the Houston Grand is a really great event though.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 06:19 PM
  #10  
Racer Ex 
Resident Alien
 
Racer Ex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,083
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
MKV are my homies. New team this year. Good guys who are getting some good instruction.
Racer Ex is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 07:11 PM
  #11  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Yeah, they really ride as a team. Very cool. Give 'em some props from me -- I rode my ass off and couldn't crack them solo.

I originally thought my current team would have more M35+ riders this season, but they haven't been showing :-/ I've been talking to College a bit... they're always at my races...
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 07:24 PM
  #12  
UT_Dude
Texas Fight!
 
UT_Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Based entirely on my own observations, I find most people don't go to races based on the payout. They go based on the quality of the race. Bear Creek is generally deemed as fairly low quality, so people don't go. Houston Grand is a quality event, as are things like Pace Bend, Fayetteville, etc, so people will consistently go to those.

The exception to that rule is things like Tulsa Tough, where the payout is just over the top high (3-4x or more than normal).

Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Yeah, I'm surprised there wasn't a bigger turnout. $100 for first, cash 6 deep. Today is the Houston Grand Crit, and there were a lot more pre-regs, so it will be a much bigger field ($325 for first...).

Houston racing != Austin racing, it seems. I have heard the Houston Grand is a really great event though.
__________________
T E X A S F I G H T !
http://www.chriscollins.org
UT_Dude is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 07:30 PM
  #13  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Originally Posted by UT_Dude View Post
Based entirely on my own observations, I find most people don't go to races based on the payout. They go based on the quality of the race. Bear Creek is generally deemed as fairly low quality, so people don't go. Houston Grand is a quality event, as are things like Pace Bend, Fayetteville, etc, so people will consistently go to those.

The exception to that rule is things like Tulsa Tough, where the payout is just over the top high (3-4x or more than normal).
Yeah, I think "quality" is subjective. Bear Creek was a great course, in the shade for 80%, spectators can see you for 90% of it. Short laps. A tent with apples and M&Ms is nice, but it doesn't make it or break it for me.

Houston Grand was shiny. Both races were awesome.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 07:39 PM
  #14  
UT_Dude
Texas Fight!
 
UT_Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 2,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah, but if you ask most of the 1/2's out there, the course at Bear Creek isn't that great, and it has a reputation for having tons of mosquitos. Plus, the organizers completely botched the timing. The 1/2, and 3's races (ones people are likely to travel for) were put at reaaaally early times (7:30AM for the 3's!), making it hard for people from Austin/Dallas to travel for them day-of, and thus making the trip much more expensive. They should've put races likely to be filled more locally (4's, 5's, maybe Juniors) in the earlier slots, and they should have deleted one of the masters and/or juniors races to compress the schedule. 7:30AM-6PM is hard both logistically, and on teams who have people in multiple categories (especially as the categories were put in a rather random order).

Based mostly on our god-awful start time, I was never going to that race (period), but I think the course is why most people think of Houston Grand as higher quality.

Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Yeah, I think "quality" is subjective. Bear Creek was a great course, in the shade for 80%, spectators can see you for 90% of it. Short laps. A tent with apples and M&Ms is nice, but it doesn't make it or break it for me.

Houston Grand was shiny. Both races were awesome.
__________________
T E X A S F I G H T !
http://www.chriscollins.org
UT_Dude is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 07:43 PM
  #15  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Originally Posted by UT_Dude View Post
Yeah, but if you ask most of the 1/2's out there, the course at Bear Creek isn't that great, and it has a reputation for having tons of mosquitos. Plus, the organizers completely botched the timing. The 1/2, and 3's races (ones people are likely to travel for) were put at reaaaally early times (7:30AM for the 3's!), making it hard for people from Austin/Dallas to travel for them day-of, and thus making the trip much more expensive. They should've put races likely to be filled more locally (4's, 5's, maybe Juniors) in the earlier slots, and they should have deleted one of the masters and/or juniors races to compress the schedule. 7:30AM-6PM is hard both logistically, and on teams who have people in multiple categories (especially as the categories were put in a rather random order).

Based mostly on our god-awful start time, I was never going to that race (period), but I think the course is why most people think of Houston Grand as higher quality.
You make good points -- my starts were 3:50pm yesterday and 9:00 am today. Couldn't have worked out better. Hmmm. It does seem like the 3s and p12 should have started later.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 10:20 PM
  #16  
brians647
R.E.Member
 
brians647's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CT
Posts: 863

Bikes: Cannondale, Kirk

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
You make good points -- my starts were 3:50pm yesterday and 9:00 am today. Couldn't have worked out better. Hmmm. It does seem like the 3s and p12 should have started later.
Regardless, good job.

Why did you opt to drop your FTP? Or, perhaps more to the point, was it a change in how you read your power info, or a change in training that led to different numbers?

Wait, are you too fast now for me to ask that?
brians647 is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 10:38 PM
  #17  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Originally Posted by brians647 View Post
Regardless, good job.

Why did you opt to drop your FTP? Or, perhaps more to the point, was it a change in how you read your power info, or a change in training that led to different numbers?

Wait, are you too fast now for me to ask that?
My numbers continue to improve, I just think that they point to a higher FTP than I can actually hit. I don't really care, as long as everything is improving. Since I've started doing 20m intervals, I've realized how much of a TT whimp I am. I can hold 358 for 20m in a test, but in my training, I'm averaging around 325W.

This crit was so tough that I was nauseous for two hours after the finish. My NP was 329W, so I think 330 is a reasonable estimate. 340W wouldn't make much sense, looking at this crit.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 01:04 AM
  #18  
ridethecliche
Village Idiot
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Bahstaaaaan
Posts: 20,247
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Unless you're getting sick or something wasn't quite right day off, but I can see your reason for adjusting your ftp.

If anything you can always change it back once you improve or get data that suggests otherwise.
ridethecliche is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 08:28 AM
  #19  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
d'oh! it looks like they did get a podium (2nd place)
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 10:50 AM
  #20  
Nickel
Splicer of Molecules
 
Nickel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: A less cold place
Posts: 1,723

Bikes: Giant

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm sorry to bring you even more bad news....
Nickel is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 11:38 AM
  #21  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)


You wouldn't believe how many people have been forwarding this story to me! Now a video! I think should be able to get a bereavement day off tomorrow.

I think I should go to Sam's and buy a couple cases...
waterrockets is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 12:15 PM
  #22  
JohnKScott
Senior Member
 
JohnKScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 3,385

Bikes: It has two wheels

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Nice job. Sounds like a demanding yet rewarding race!
JohnKScott is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.