Go Back  Bike Forums > The Racer's Forum > "The 33"-Road Bike Racing
Reload this Page >

Prevalence of EPO in the amateur bike racing ranks?

"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Prevalence of EPO in the amateur bike racing ranks?

Old 05-18-08, 07:48 PM
  #1  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,393

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1013 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Prevalence of EPO in the amateur bike racing ranks?

This has been discussed here in the past, but I'm wondering if anyone has anything new to add regarding this topic? There must be a few guys juicing from Cat 5 through Masters 45+.

Would taking EPO for 60 days and winning a few bicycle races be fun? Sure. Would I spend the money? Perhaps, I spend enough time and money on this sport that it wouldn't be a stretch in that respect. But for me, and I would guess for 95%+ of those here, doping is so completely antithetical to every reason I ride a bicycle that it would make the whole pursuit of the sport rather pointless.

In addition to which EPO would generate real Self Loathing. And that's no fun at all.
patentcad is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 08:04 PM
  #2  
wfrogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This thread is not realistic..... Who on earth would only do a 60 day cycle?
wfrogge is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 08:12 PM
  #3  
wfrogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok ill turn off the ******* post-o-meter for a second and give an honest answer.....


There are guys doping without question. Its affordable to many and the stuff is easy to get. Hell there are pills you can buy at GNC/Vitamin world that would come up positive in a test (Havoc and Novedex XT as examples) and for damn sure work. For the "real deal" enhancement drugs they are fairly cheap (well EPO is quite expensive) but still you MUST train hard and eat right or they will not help. Its not like you take the drugs and are fast the next day......
wfrogge is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 08:25 PM
  #4  
Voodoo76
Blast from the Past
 
Voodoo76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Schertz TX
Posts: 3,064

Bikes: Ridley Excal, CAAD10, CAAD12, Felt DA, Dolan

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 154 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ya can't help but wonder. Max out my Test. levels, and give me a Hematocrit of 49.99999. What difference would it really make? Didn't some dude do a blog to that effect a couple years ago, I remember a link here somewhere.
Voodoo76 is online now  
Old 05-18-08, 08:52 PM
  #5  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,393

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1013 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
60 day cycle of EPO. First off, what amateur racer in his right mind would do EPO. But if you did, you'd get results in 60 days. For sure from what I've read.
patentcad is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 09:10 PM
  #6  
sverrefehn
Senior Member
 
sverrefehn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 496

Bikes: Bianchi FG Lite, Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There was an article in Outside Magazine a few years back where the author wanted to find out, as a 40+ year old amateur, how easy it was to get the stuff and how well it would work. He took Hgh, Test and epo primarily and it worked quite well for him. He was noticeably faster, recovered quite quickly from extra hard efforts and had far increased endurance. Scary stuff.
sverrefehn is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 09:11 PM
  #7  
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 4,850

Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I raced against a guy today who has served one or two years for an EPO or some such positive.
Duke of Kent is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 09:13 PM
  #8  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,393

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1013 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sverrefehn View Post
There was an article in Outside Magazine a few years back where the author wanted to find out, as a 40+ year old amateur, how easy it was to get the stuff and how well it would work. He took Hgh, Test and epo primarily and it worked quite well for him. He was noticeably faster, recovered quite quickly from extra hard efforts and had far increased endurance. Scary stuff.
I read that article. It does sound tempting, until you think it through. That took me about 10 seconds, and I do have a tendency to go over to the Dark Side.

Well, I'm not on Windows, but still.
patentcad is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 10:14 PM
  #9  
brians647
R.E.Member
 
brians647's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: CT
Posts: 863

Bikes: Cannondale, Kirk

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sverrefehn View Post
There was an article in Outside Magazine a few years back where the author wanted to find out, as a 40+ year old amateur, how easy it was to get the stuff and how well it would work. He took Hgh, Test and epo primarily and it worked quite well for him. He was noticeably faster, recovered quite quickly from extra hard efforts and had far increased endurance. Scary stuff.
I just can't imagine it being fun or rewarding.

Okay, I know it's not an answer (and my answer is that, yes, some must try it), but since we're not making money at this and race for pride, what's the point?

Seems like (as Pcad said) it would take the last bit of fun out of whatever little we accomplish.
brians647 is offline  
Old 05-18-08, 10:57 PM
  #10  
Bullseye
Senior Member
 
Bullseye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 498

Bikes: Cannondale systemsix, Raleigh Competition '05

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Personally, I'm too much of a health/physiology weenie for such substances to be interesting.

I guess this wouldn't stop some people. There are a lot of people who do a lot of things that simply don't answer to reason, and I think this topic is one.

-bullseye
Bullseye is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 12:56 AM
  #11  
filtersweep
Senior Member
 
filtersweep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Anyone see the movie The Ringer?

Seriously, what fun is there in cheating to win?

While I don't condone it at the pro level, when "everyone" is doing it, I can see why it is necessary to even be competitive.

At a masters or cat 5 level, if you can't "win" on your own ability, then it is about competing against yourself.
filtersweep is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 03:48 AM
  #12  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,714
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 526 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
of course, there are no former pros or world or national champions racing on the master's circuit.
gsteinb is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 04:09 AM
  #13  
carpediemracing
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,087

Bikes: Tsunami Bikes

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 260 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The article:

Drug Test, Outside Magazine

I read it every few months. It's a fascinating article.

Unquestionably there are guys in the area, esp PCad's area, who were taking stuff. From NY alone I think there have been 4 or 5 suspensions due to positive tests. The most famous would be Joe Papp, who was based out of, at some point, Glen Falls. He's the guy who testified at Floyd's thing and did a CyclingNews diary. Others include a Masters guy (placed regularly in NYC races) and two Cat 1-2 racers (or maybe they were pro). Oh and one domestic team pro.

I asked a figurehead of US racing at a spring series training race what would happen if I had a dope test done there. He laughed and said we'd lose half the racers out there. I think he was exaggerating but his attitude shows that he thinks it's somewhat prevalent. Two of the guys who raced for his teams would eventually test positive (and are in that list above).

Unfortunately it takes a lot of money to do tests, but given an opportunity, I'd do a lot of testing at local races. You can make a decent living sandbagging, have fun doing it, and never have a chance of getting tested. That's fine. If people do that by doping, I think that's not a good thing.

View on doping locally:
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...e-and-now.html

Idea for testing:
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...-controls.html

cdr
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 04:16 AM
  #14  
patentcad
Peloton Shelter Dog
Thread Starter
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 90,393

Bikes: 2017 Scott Foil, 2016 Scott Addict SL, 2018 Santa Cruz Blur CC MTB

Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1013 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post

Unquestionably there are guys in the area, esp PCad's area, who were taking stuff.
Pcad's Bag of Excuses just got bigger. EXCELLENT.

Your contribution to Pcad Cycling Zen cannot be overstated carpe.

Last edited by patentcad; 05-19-08 at 04:30 AM.
patentcad is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 04:45 AM
  #15  
NomadVW 
部門ニ/自転車オタク
 
NomadVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 3,173

Bikes: 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, 2012 Blue Norcross CX, 2016 Blue Axino SL, 2016 Scott Scale, Fixie, Fetish Cycles Road Bike (on the trainer)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The question is whether you think the person is racing to be fast, or racing for the challenge.

There've been plenty of days I just simply want to be fast, and the appeal of performance enhancers is high. But, in my line of work - it's simply out of the question.

At the end of the day, limiting PEDs is about protecting the health of the rider. It's not about "leveling" the playing field - because if that were the case we'd all race on Walmart frames. People who choose to spend $$ will gain performance advantages.

With that in mind - if there were no health risks (or in my line of work, cause me to drop out of flight status), of course I would take them (if I chose to afford them), because they'd have no reason to be against the rules anymore. Hell, walk around the local warm up scene and watch the asthma inhalers coming out of the woodwork. I've seen more asthma inhalers in the last 3 months than I've seen since my 7th grade AD&D games.

Just a bit of honesty.
__________________
Envision, Energize, Enable
NomadVW is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 04:47 AM
  #16  
Nikephoros
Stratiotika ktemata
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I honestly think most dopers have rationalized it out of being cheating in their heads. Since the drugs' primary use is to aid your training you still have to "work" to get results, and in fact the drugs allow you to work extra hard extra often, I imagine a lot of dopers say, "well I worked extra hard and extra often so I deserve these results maybe you should have worked harder too."

I remember when Mark McGwire first came under steroid scrutiny, Tony LeRussa tried to defend him by saying, "his results are natural: he stays in the gym longer than anyone and puts in the work." To me, that sounded like a guy who knew nothing about steroids and secondly an unintentional admission of guilt.
Nikephoros is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 04:47 AM
  #17  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,368
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
botto is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:00 AM
  #18  
Snuffleupagus
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
The question is whether you think the person is racing to be fast, or racing for the challenge.

There've been plenty of days I just simply want to be fast, and the appeal of performance enhancers is high. But, in my line of work - it's simply out of the question.

At the end of the day, limiting PEDs is about protecting the health of the rider. It's not about "leveling" the playing field - because if that were the case we'd all race on Walmart frames. People who choose to spend $$ will gain performance advantages.

With that in mind - if there were no health risks (or in my line of work, cause me to drop out of flight status), of course I would take them (if I chose to afford them), because they'd have no reason to be against the rules anymore.
Hell, walk around the local warm up scene and watch the asthma inhalers coming out of the woodwork. I've seen more asthma inhalers in the last 3 months than I've seen since my 7th grade AD&D games.

Just a bit of honesty.
The thing is albuterol doesn't enlarge lungs any more than they would be naturally if the person is healthy. I was having a bit of asthma-like symptoms during 'cross this fall, and using albuterol didn't really seem to help, it just made me light headed and dizzy post race due to the stimulants.
Snuffleupagus is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:03 AM
  #19  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,368
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
The question is whether you think the person is racing to be fast, or racing for the challenge.

There've been plenty of days I just simply want to be fast, and the appeal of performance enhancers is high. But, in my line of work - it's simply out of the question.

At the end of the day, limiting PEDs is about protecting the health of the rider. It's not about "leveling" the playing field - because if that were the case we'd all race on Walmart frames. People who choose to spend $$ will gain performance advantages.

With that in mind - if there were no health risks (or in my line of work, cause me to drop out of flight status), of course I would take them (if I chose to afford them), because they'd have no reason to be against the rules anymore. Hell, walk around the local warm up scene and watch the asthma inhalers coming out of the woodwork.
I've seen more asthma inhalers in the last 3 months than I've seen since my 7th grade AD&D games.

Just a bit of honesty.
botto is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:19 AM
  #20  
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,711

Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2259 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Around here, at my level, I doubt it.

Even if it was legal, waking up three times a night to do jumping jacks, just so you don't die... I think I'd drop out of competitive cycling.
__________________
"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:40 AM
  #21  
DrWJODonnell
Slow'n'Aero
 
DrWJODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driving the pace in the crosswind
Posts: 2,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have wondered about it, particularly with a select few really strong riders around here. But as to the prevalence? I don't think anyone in the know would tell, and those who are not can only speculate.

Here is a question for you guys though. If USAC/UCI said that EPO starting tomorrow would be perfectly legal, would you use it?
DrWJODonnell is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:45 AM
  #22  
kensuf
My idea of fun
 
kensuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell View Post
I have wondered about it, particularly with a select few really strong riders around here. But as to the prevalence? I don't think anyone in the know would tell, and those who are not can only speculate.

Here is a question for you guys though.
If USAC/UCI said that EPO starting tomorrow would be perfectly legal, would you use it?
No.

I race for the spirit of the challenge and to hang out with my friends.

To P'Caddy, I live & race in Florida. Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, and West Palm seems to be the home of the anti-aging through chemistry industry; maybe Southern California gives us a run for our money, but there's a reason why "Nip Tuck" was originally based in south beach. I don't doubt there are people that I race against that are juiced.
kensuf is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:46 AM
  #23  
Snuffleupagus
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DrWJODonnell View Post
Here is a question for you guys though. If USAC/UCI said that EPO starting tomorrow would be perfectly legal, would you use it?
Nope. Too dangerous and too expensive. Not to mention the unfair advantage angle. Nobody cares if I win bike races except for me...and I'd rather win au natural.
Snuffleupagus is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:51 AM
  #24  
cat4ever
Cat WTF
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Look for anti aging drugs in the masters category. Legal (to buy and use, not legal per wada) and safe. If any cat 5 dopes, I'm going to shoot myself.
cat4ever is offline  
Old 05-19-08, 05:56 AM
  #25  
Snuffleupagus
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cat4ever View Post
Look for anti aging drugs in the masters category. Legal (to buy and use, not legal per wada) and safe. If any cat 5 dopes, I'm going to shoot myself.
I know of a masters rider or two who are CATVs and take test as "hormone replacement."

They still get dropped by juniors and fatties with tactical know-how.
Snuffleupagus is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.