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Old 06-05-19, 08:20 AM
  #651  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I've seen that article. I think a careful consideration, other than cost, is what speed range you're in. It seems some suits do better at some speeds versus others. And the whole "open vs. closed" idea as well. Those assumptions drive where and what fabrics they place.

For me, some of those suits aren't so good as my avg speed for anything with rollers is going to be lower than 45 kph. Unless the idea is that you do exceed that speed downhill at some point and it matters then (downwind isn't the equivalent airspeed, just ground speed).

I'm cruising Ebay looking to upgrade. I've got a Galibier suit. It apparently is ok-ish entry level suit for someone.

I'm looking at used BP 3.0's or 3.3's. Apparently the 3.3 is worth it if you can.

I do hear some of the newer ones are even worse for not being able to stand in them. Maybe keep my Galibier for "fast simulated training" and own a used BP for rides I care about.
I like my Body Paint 3.3 suit. I have a teammate looking to sell his Castelli Body Paint 3.3 in size Medium. It was used one time only. Here's a pic:


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Old 06-05-19, 08:41 AM
  #652  
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I got them on closeout at Dicks. It would be cheaper to do the Specialized one if you can't buy them on deep sale.......or steal them from your kid's soccer gear.
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Old 06-05-19, 08:46 AM
  #653  
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Soccer sleeves are like $4 a pair on Amazon. The Specialized ones are like $9 on sale or $25 at regular price.
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Old 06-07-19, 09:35 AM
  #654  
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Skinsuit shopping is getting frustrating.

I posted on ST about this..........it's 2019, why is a number pouch seem like such a "modern" touch? Seriously? Seems like basic aero 101 to me.

And it's pretty much limited to Nopinz or as a Nopinz modification to your suit.......or a super expensive D2Z Endura skinsuit. Which is a suit I'm nowhere near fast enough for how they designed it.

All arrows are pointing me to getting an affordable and well tested Velotec or a used Bodypaint 3.3

Neither come new with a number pouch. Really surprises me.

Outside of the mail-in service for Nopinz, anyone have success with a DIY mod?

Seems silly that it's 2019 and we have super expensive frames and wheels with all this testing............and a humble integrated number sleeve is a hard to find item. Should be the norm.
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Old 06-07-19, 10:59 AM
  #655  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Skinsuit shopping is getting frustrating.

I posted on ST about this..........it's 2019, why is a number pouch seem like such a "modern" touch? Seriously? Seems like basic aero 101 to me.

And it's pretty much limited to Nopinz or as a Nopinz modification to your suit.......or a super expensive D2Z Endura skinsuit. Which is a suit I'm nowhere near fast enough for how they designed it.

All arrows are pointing me to getting an affordable and well tested Velotec or a used Bodypaint 3.3

Neither come new with a number pouch. Really surprises me.

Outside of the mail-in service for Nopinz, anyone have success with a DIY mod?

Seems silly that it's 2019 and we have super expensive frames and wheels with all this testing............and a humble integrated number sleeve is a hard to find item. Should be the norm.
I have a NoPinz. It seems really fast, but I'm always worried about getting called out on the placement of the number. It's centered on the back, but most races want it to be on one side or the other. I usually just turn it facing the correct side, because I don't want to place pins in this nice speedsuit, but I feel like one of these days I'll be penalized for it.
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Old 06-07-19, 11:34 AM
  #656  
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I have a NoPinz without the pouch. I did not want anything in the airstream. I glue / pin on the number much lower than NoPinz places it. I tested the NoPinz v my standard club skinsuit and there was no difference. So there is that.
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Old 06-10-19, 12:37 PM
  #657  
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I have swapped over to my road wheelset for the TT bike after "learning" for long enough to ride a disc/trispoke combo in some wind.

I knew tire choice matters, but I took off the Conti sprinter I had on the rear disc.........that POS is pretty much almost a solid piece of truck tire rubber compared to the Vittoria Corsa Speed I replaced it with. Like, it felt worse in my hand than a clincher Gatorskin. Geeeez.

I'm seriously hoping that was giving me some mega bad watt loss and my speed will come up a touch on the new tires.

Rear, 23mm Corsa Speed. Front, 19mm Pista G+. Gotta start gluing the trispoke tonight after some kind of hellish workout.
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Old 06-11-19, 01:34 PM
  #658  
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I think I've made a tire choice error. Maybe.

The front 19mm tub I bought, while it was on the HED stretching to be ready for glue......noticed there's this little gap from the tread to side of the rim. Maybe due to low CRR sidewalls or something. It's not due to curve of the tire shape, it's like a little shelf that drops in narrower at the sidewall.

Seems this would disturb the airflow. I don't notice this on my more normal rear 23mm tire on the disc wheel, that's a Corsa Speed.

I haven't glued it on yet, so could in theory sell it used and get another front tire.
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Old 06-11-19, 02:03 PM
  #659  
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My older 19mm HED tri spoke wheels take 19 or 20 mm tires. If you have a wider, newer rim, it will probably require 21 to 23 mm tires.
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Old 06-11-19, 06:16 PM
  #660  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
My older 19mm HED tri spoke wheels take 19 or 20 mm tires. If you have a wider, newer rim, it will probably require 21 to 23 mm tires.
What has been your impression of the HED wheel? More or less stable than a deep section wheel? Thinking about an H3 Plus in front or a deep section front (808 or equivalent). Currently using a Williams 60 in all conditions.

Last edited by Voodoo76; 06-11-19 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 06-11-19, 07:02 PM
  #661  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
What has been your impression of the HED wheel? More or less stable than a deep section wheel? Thinking about an H3 Plus in front or a deep section front (808 or equivalent). Currently using a Williams 60 in all conditions.
Likely our choice for the U23 ITT coming up next week. I have the older narrow version, which I prefer. Their discs are heavier but sail better, however I think going fast in the morning we will select the zipp on the rear.
Our is about 890g with a track tire. I'm getting some loose bearings put in today. It is a good wheel. More weight at the rim than the old nimble crosswind. Not very directional (meaning a flip is not a big deal) which is good if the mechanic isn't thinking.

This is one area I'm not sure is a tubular is a better choice than a clincher. Typically yes due to weight and dealing with surface imperfections. We only run tubulars, but for a good smooth flat course, I can see a good argument for a clincher.
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Old 06-11-19, 10:35 PM
  #662  
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I have owned the HED 3c and Zipp disc since 2008 and raced the combo at the track at VSC, Hellyer and for road time trials. I think that combo is the fastest setup for most wind conditions. For windy road and outdoor track, I use 60 mm rim on the front. At the track, the HED is not as stiff as I would like and the same goes for the Zipp. And it is definitely not stiff enough for flying jumps at Velo Sports Center.
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Old 06-13-19, 06:09 AM
  #663  
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I'm looking for info on cable routing. A 2013 DA frame running 1x. Similar to burnthesheep's setup. 2 cables running into the top tube behind the stem (no FD cable). I have a decent amount of extra cable right now as I had been playing with extensions, etc. From the front it's almost invisible behind the riser for the pad, pretty decent loop viewed from the side. Better hidden or as short as possible?
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Old 06-14-19, 08:09 AM
  #664  
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FWIW, I've noticed the thing to be most careful about with this is your storage and moving of the bike when you aren't riding it.

You don't really ever need to turn a TT bike on a dime, even for an out and back. You don't need the cables to be able to let the base bar bang into the top tube, if that makes sense.

But, if cleaning it up to that level of detail.......you have to be careful not to let the bars swing and stress the cables when you aren't riding it if you did shorten them a lot. You could screw something up and not realize it.

I haven't shortened mine yet. The 1x seems to be working so far. I kept the FD shifter installed and just taped the stainless shift cable with electrical tape to the frame until I'm happy with removing all of that.

I'll consider shortening later.

One weird thing I've discovered on my DA is that it doesn't seem to fit a very large chainring. My 54T is uncomfortably close to my chainstay.

I wound up custom making a like 1/2 mm spacer for between the crank and BB bearing. I checked everything to try to ascertain why this is. Perhaps it was only ever designed around a 53T ring.

The wide tooth on the narrow wide 1x ring may have added a 1/2 mm or something, but still. I don't understand how this is possible.

It's not possible to "over insert" a crank into the BB bearing is it? I slide it in and give it a slap with my palm to seat it. That's all. When doing that, the 1x big ring pretty much would rub on the chainstay.
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Old 06-14-19, 08:39 AM
  #665  
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I suggest that there are some cone turn arounds where one would want the time trial bike to turn on a dime. For example, Bend, OR hosted the masters nationals and the 20K TT turn around was on a downhill section of narrow road with an off camber sloping pavement with large broken slag on the side of the road that dropped off. If one missed the turn, it was a crash into the broken rock. Who sets up a course like this? USAC.

My wife was racing and we pre rode the course, She looks at the turnaround and freaks out. So we practice turn arounds together for 30 minutes until she can nail that with confidence at speed. One can always slow down, uncleat and slowly using the maximum steering of the bike make the turn but that is too slow. This is the equivalent of the pro golf shot over water requiring 250 yard drive to carry the water versus the longer route that leaves a long iron to the green. Without turning radius, the only choice is the pro shot.

What happened to my wife in the race was that USAC gave her a poor start position in the TT versus her national ranking that resulted in her arriving at the turnaround with 3 other women (she caught them), one of which crashed going around such that she had to slow down substantially and she lost the national championship by 5 seconds coming in 3rd. USAC had nothing to say about the poor starting position than we do the best we can.

Last edited by Hermes; 06-14-19 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 06-14-19, 09:01 AM
  #666  
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Dude! Wow that's a story. Point taken.

Glad I haven't trimmed them yet!
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Old 06-14-19, 06:06 PM
  #667  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post

One weird thing I've discovered on my DA is that it doesn't seem to fit a very large chainring. My 54T is uncomfortably close to my chainstay.

I wound up custom making a like 1/2 mm spacer for between the crank and BB bearing. I checked everything to try to ascertain why this is. Perhaps it was only ever designed around a 53T ring.

The wide tooth on the narrow wide 1x ring may have added a 1/2 mm or something, but still. I don't understand how this is possible.

It's not possible to "over insert" a crank into the BB bearing is it? I slide it in and give it a slap with my palm to seat it. That's all. When doing that, the 1x big ring pretty much would rub on the chainstay.
What crank are you running? I'm using a Holowgram/SISL2 & can put my little finger between a 56 and the chain stay. A lot of BB30 setups use a drive side spacer (for SISL2 it's 2.5mm) to set the chain line. Could be missing something?

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Old 06-14-19, 07:39 PM
  #668  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
What crank are you running? I'm using a Holowgram/SISL2 & can put my little finger between a 56 and the chain stay. A lot of BB30 setups use a drive side spacer (for SISL2 it's 2.5mm) to set the chain line. Could be missing something?
You win. I bought probably the different hollowtech when I swapped crank lengths.
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Old 06-14-19, 10:42 PM
  #669  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
... Could be missing something?
3-5W using those pedals over a Shimano or Look type.
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Old 06-14-19, 10:46 PM
  #670  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
...national championship by 5 seconds coming in 3rd. USAC had nothing to say about the poor starting position than we do the best we can.
That 5 sec tho.
I have more than one story about those (for my wife). Great performance anyway. The good news is while nobody remembers 3rd, they don't really remember 1st either.
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Old 06-14-19, 11:01 PM
  #671  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
That 5 sec tho.
I have more than one story about those (for my wife). Great performance anyway. The good news is while nobody remembers 3rd, they don't really remember 1st either.
After Bend, she won Salt Lake City and the Winston Salem, NC masters road nationals in back to back years.
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Old 06-15-19, 05:50 AM
  #672  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
3-5W using those pedals over a Shimano or Look type.
Some work yet to be done. I've seen some data on the Speedplay Aeros, ERO Sports showed 3-5W over the std pedals. Not much out there on shoes but thinking about going to lace up like Empires or Sub6. What are the fast youngsters using?
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Old 06-15-19, 05:51 AM
  #673  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
After Bend, she won Salt Lake City and the Winston Salem, NC masters road nationals in back to back years.
That is awesome!
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Old 06-15-19, 09:41 AM
  #674  
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
Some work yet to be done. I've seen some data on the Speedplay Aeros, ERO Sports showed 3-5W over the std pedals. Not much out there on shoes but thinking about going to lace up like Empires or Sub6. What are the fast youngsters using?
Depends a bit on the event, and considering riders will tend to use what they use most often which is normally what they use on the road bike. My kid used his road Shimano on his 1st MTB race bike. It was later he changed.

Lace-ups with shoe covers and platform/low float (Shimano, Garmin, Look, Mavic, Keo) is what I think best for the TT.


For road, the very fast kids are using what the team provides. There is a push to have interchangeable equipment.

So the whole team is "forced" to change pedals. At the time mine was on we were at the point some of us had invested in our own stuff and the team was getting its stuff - so it was hybrid.

I know Speed Plays were on the road bikes for LUX. But when they won the US TTT I believe it was half and half. There was no edict.



For the TT, I see more fixed pedal/no float than I think I do on road. As a spectator I am usually at the start taking video, and have to admit, I notice but don't remember (I can pull out video). I know the national ITT winner junior and U23 several years was on "platform".

At the track, I have not seen anything but the platform pedals, but I am new to the track world.


I believe, without hard proof, and heard from a senior product development guy that the float type (Speed Play) take a bit of energy from the calves that need not be used for the platform ones. That amounts to a few W.

I had ridden Speed Plays from the year they came out (inventor was a local) for at least a decade, and commuted and raced on them and this seems true to me. They are less used in Europe. USAC told the kids to be aware of getting spare parts. It can really be felt two people out-of-the-saddle sprinting on a tandem. My 1992 tandem was setup with speed play (I had a very powerful stoker) and I found it easier to control the bike when we went to no-float Shimano. Since then, I've just done that. As we had a relationship with Shimano folks I've stayed with that brand.


I tend to see the pedal type line up with the discipline.

MTB - various non road type. SPD is popular. I've seen everything.

CX - same as MTB

Track - almost all some platform variant - low-no float

Road - I see more float. Seems to be regional. So Cal has lots of Speed Play. I see less at national events.

ITT - Less float


I have piles of TT video. You can see the speed play (#10) and platform being used. I'd have to go to the video cuts and take a closer look at the starters.

Tehre might be a pattern on stability too.


Last edited by Doge; 06-15-19 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 06-16-19, 08:16 AM
  #675  
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Raced my TT bike for the first time in a year yesterday. Made a very drastic change to position two days before. Power was way low, but speed was high. THank goodness I don't have to comply with the UCI otherwise my mantis position would've got me kicked right off the road . 230 Watts got me 25.7 mph over a ~40k, windy / decently hilly course.
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