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ANT+ PowerTaps

Old 07-09-08, 08:15 AM
  #1  
bdcheung
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ANT+ PowerTaps

http://www.saris.com/athletes/PermaL...931e27920.aspx

Confirmed that the Tour riders for Garmin-Chipotle are using ANT+ powertaps. Video in link.
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Old 07-09-08, 08:25 AM
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I'm digging the power info on Millar too. 400W for 36m. 5.19W/kg, with several days of racing before... nice.

You can also give him 10W or 12W for drivetrain losses...
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Old 07-09-08, 09:01 AM
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I was just looking over Frischkorn's #'s linked below...

http://www.saris.com/athletes/PermaL...8737548d4.aspx

How did they get average watts overall AND while pedaling? Can that info be obtained using Power Agent or is this something that can only be figured out using the 705 and PT together?
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Old 07-09-08, 09:12 AM
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Will was obviuosly upset with himself that he hesitated at the finish of the stage. At the time, I just thought he was gassed. Looking at his PT numbers, it looks like there was still gas in the tank. You can understand why in hindsight he regrets not playing the final 300 meters or so a little different.

Still a heckof an effort for your 3rd stage ever in the TDF.
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Old 07-09-08, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by NattyTerp View Post
How did they get average watts overall AND while pedaling? Can that info be obtained using Power Agent or is this something that can only be figured out using the 705 and PT together?
Basically you get the "non-pedaling" average by ignoring 0 Watts.
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Old 07-09-08, 09:18 AM
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For this kind of arithmetic analysis, exporting your data to a CSV and using Excel would be easier, I'd think.
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Old 07-09-08, 09:27 AM
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Part of me wonders if they're just using normalized power from WKO+...
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Old 07-09-08, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Part of me wonders if they're just using normalized power from WKO+...
I should have thought about this before I asked my last question, but I just realized that Power Agent probably isnít capable of pulling data from the 705. I hope they come out with a version that will. The lap button on the 705 could work just like the interval button on the PT.

I think there is a good chance you're right about the WKO+...
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Old 07-09-08, 09:34 AM
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the "Lap" button functions the same way as Intervals on any other cycling computer.
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Old 07-09-08, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
the "Lap" button functions the same way as Intervals on any other cycling computer.
True, lol....sorry, it's been one of those weeks at work, making me a little slow.

Tonights ride should help get me going again (I hope)
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Old 07-09-08, 11:50 AM
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Question/thought:

Current 2.4 hub (2008) can be "software updated" to be compatable with ant. I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?

With the 2.4 retailing in the $ 1400 area - seems like the 2009 version is the better buy.

Still on the fence woth 08 now or 09 in a couple months. I know WR had some great advice on buying used... I'm just a little skiddish on used electronic gear.

Last edited by MondoDave; 07-09-08 at 12:08 PM. Reason: wording
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Old 07-09-08, 11:53 AM
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Yes Saris announced that the current model can be upgraded to ANT+
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Old 07-09-08, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
Question/thought:

Current 2.4 hub (2008) can be "software updated" to be compatable with ant. I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?

With the 2.4 retailing in the $ 1400 area - seems like the 2009 version is the better buy.

Still on the fence woth 08 now or 09 in a couple months. I know WR had some great advice on buying used... I'm just a little skiddish on used electronic gear.
It's pretty easy to find 2.4 hubs new for $1000-$1100.
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Old 07-09-08, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?
I didn't ask that specific question, but it seemed like Saris wanted to have the hub in their hands. Besides, you would need some kind of cable or some such on the hub itself in order to talk to it to reprogram it.
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Old 07-09-08, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
Question/thought:

Current 2.4 hub (2008) can be "software updated" to be compatable with ant. I wonder if it is possible to update the hub without sending it in?
Supposed to be a software upgrade you will be able to perform yourself. If you own an SL (wired version) you can send that in for an upgrade to the 2.4 though all they do is replace the chip. An end user would be able to do this IMHO.

Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
With the 2.4 retailing in the $ 1400 area - seems like the 2009 version is the better buy.

Still on the fence woth 08 now or 09 in a couple months. I know WR had some great advice on buying used... I'm just a little skiddish on used electronic gear.
The more power data you have the more useful it is. I say get what you can now then upgrade if needed. If you dont need ANT + (dont have a Garmin) then theres really no need.
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Old 07-09-08, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
Besides, you would need some kind of cable or some such on the hub itself in order to talk to it to reprogram it.
It'd be nice if they would equip local authorized resellers to perform the upgrade, similar to how Shimano has authorized shops who will heat-mold their shoes. Except Saris would need to provide a cable and laptop where Shimano has provided an oven.
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Old 07-09-08, 02:07 PM
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I hope the 2.4 hub is user upgradable to ANT+ but I'd be suprised. Upgrading the firmware on the head unit is easy but I don't see how you could do anything to the hub since there aren't any connectors. Replacing chips is probably beyond what SARIS would want users to do.

Anyway, I guess time will tell...
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Old 07-09-08, 02:16 PM
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All I know is that I ♥ Saris
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Old 07-09-08, 02:40 PM
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Saris and Velowear are tied for the top of the heap.
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Old 07-09-08, 03:00 PM
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A little addl. info - I spoke to a Saris customer service rep and he told me:

1. Could not comment on pricing seen in cycling articles.
2. They have not determined if the software update can be done by the PT owner or service center.
3. Said the 09 versions may or may not be out in Sept. (gave a 2-6 month window)
4. Said the 09 version was really cool and given the choice he would wait (this was unexpected).

edit - 5. There will be a fee to upgrade to ant+ per CR rep @ saris

Anyway, just some addl feedback I received when I called Saris.

Last edited by MondoDave; 07-09-08 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 07-09-08, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MondoDave View Post
4. Said the 09 version was really cool and given the choice he would wait (this was unexpected).
I'm glad to hear their customer service reps are that honest, none of that pushing old stock crap that you usually have to put up with.
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Old 07-09-08, 06:19 PM
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^^ like Campagnolo taking a red sharpie to their left-over 10-speed Record shifters?
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Old 07-10-08, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
You can also give him 10W or 12W for drivetrain losses...
What, why? Can you always give everyone 10W to 12W for drivetrain losses? Are all my numbers 10W to 12W higher than I thought?
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Old 07-10-08, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by recursive View Post
What, why? Can you always give everyone 10W to 12W for drivetrain losses? Are all my numbers 10W to 12W higher than I thought?
I'm figuring 2-3% power loss for a well-maintained geared drivetrain. That seems to be the common estimate. I guess if I actually calculate it out instead of just typing the first number that comes to mind, that would be 8W-12W on 400W

Yes, you can add some estimate of drivetrain losses though. I haven't been doing that on the e-wang chart, but that's about the only place where it would make any practical difference at all, since we train for relative changes. But, if you're comparing to somebody using an SRM...
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Old 07-10-08, 09:43 AM
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I've given some thought to using a PT on one bike (say a road bike) and a Quarq/SRM on another (TT).

So theoretically you could use the estimate there, too.

In reality I lose so much power on my TT bike that I have to use a completely different FTP/etc to set my target interval power. So it'd be different anyway.
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