botto 

Never heard of a "Pinnie." Is that a new bd brand?

'flyer

Our local TdeF guy (4th in '88) used to ride an early mtn. bike out on our training rides, and still made us look like we were riding anvils.
To paraphrase an old one:
"It's the MOTOR, stupid!"

umd

That phrase drives me nuts. Of course it's the motor, but given that we all have the motor that we have at any given moment, equipment can make a difference, at any level. Training is best, obviously, but training helps for the future, not for the now.

patentcad

My bike is too fancy for me.

Fat Boy

Probably in 2010.

Racer Ex 

No kidding. The Luddites are out in force right now. I love the "you can overcome bling by training harder which is easy". Like you can just keep raising your FTP at will by chucking in a few more "easy" intervals.

OP made it all the way to Cat4 on Sora or whatever. Cripes, you can make it to Cat4 on a Huffy 3 speed. You just need to show up.

RacerX

nice reality check post, OP. I think people loose sight and think they can buy their way to being faster.

OTOH, petty people who love to bag on someone because they enjoy the machinery is pathetic too. How low is your self-esteem that you get joy from beating someone on a more expensive bike? Resentment is so childish.

Cycling works on several levels. The bike geek, the athlete, the fitness rider, cross-trainer, recreational... purely for the chi-chi, etc, etc

I do feel that geometry and rotational weight are key areas. A heavy bike can feel very responsive with light wheels and that can translate into that extra snap or energy savings that helps you lunge for the line, close that gap, or make crest that hill before your buddy does.

It's all about joy of the sport and the hobby.

But yeah, racers get inferiority complexes or judge others based on what they see. That's natural but the OP makes a great reminder to just go have fun and see what happens!

botto 

did he ever show up on one of his bikes with the whack geometry?

are there that many campagnolo converts on bf these days?

umd

Wow... confusing!

Walter

Tell me about it.

Hey RacerX/Ex, I quoted one of you 2 regarding Queen Helene in another thread and now I'm not sure I got it right. Sorry. Good idea though; definitely the most cost-effective solution out there.

Regarding the guy who rides with Bauer: This isn't real surprising. Just be happy he doesn't humble you all by riding a Schwinn Jaguar (in either vintage or current Wal-Mart state)

Racer Ex 

The Queen is the bomb.

Bauer stomped a bunch of amateurs on an MTB. He would have stomped them even worse on a roadbike. It's not the motor. It's not the bike. It's both.

I'm faster on my 12.5 pound Scott with bling wheels than I am on my 22 pound Trek with $40 Mavics and 28c tires. It's called racing and a second or less can be the difference between winning and losing. See picture, page one.

Walter

Arrgh! I think I attributed the Queen revelation to the other Racer. Apologies.

Oh, I don't doubt that equipment plays a role. I'm faster (not by alot but faster on a 853 bike with modern gearing and wheels than I am on my old Super Record equipped Columbus SL bike and I'm marginally faster than that on my aero framed C'dale. But there are alot of people who are convinced that all that separates them from greatness is a pound or two of frame weight. It takes a bit more than that, I fear.

umd

Of course. A pound or two could make a difference between a place or two, but it's not going to move you from the back of the pack to the podium.

Doggus

I'm still trying to get that picture to play. How many times do I have to press play?

You did that on purpose didn't you!!!

waterrockets 

simplyred

+1

There comes a time when your mind and legs just give out. If anyone actually trains to raise their FTP here - they know what a *****ing meat grinder it can be - I figured that one out recently. Training takes its toll - there's only so many 18+ hr weeks you WANT to do.

Sure - it is the motor - and when you're d!cking around with your buddies on a group ride, there's the gamete of riders, so you will see hard posers get dropped by MTN bike riders. But when you're racing in categories, everyone has approximately the same motor. How are you going to distinguish yourself?

umd

And I should add that there always seems to be the person that is flying up through the ranks, who's "motor" is clearly better than everyone else in the category. They can trounce anyone regardless of their bike, until they get to whatever category appropriate for their natural strength.

RacerX

I guess this suggests that the equipment will seperate "equal" motors? I think this is a common trap people fall into, or use to justify spending on new equipment.

In fact, what seperates equal motors is in the head. Learning race tactics will seperate people, as well as learning your limitations and weaknesses.

I'm not advocating the luddite mentality. I enjoy the cool stuff like most but it won't make a sporting difference. I am talking about specifics here- not a Walmart $300 compared to a $3K road bike.

I think the more expensive stuff has a lot going for it but beating the next guy isn't one of them unless it helps you biomechanically (fit).

The one area that really does make a difference, I feel, are the wheels. From a value perspective, I'll take the $1000 bike w/ great wheelset rather than a $3000 bike w/ heavy wheels.

simplyred

fwiw, this is my opinion in racing.

Aero is good. Power is king. Tactics are ace.
Less amounts of the above is proportional to your chances of winning a race.

umd

I agree, the little differences are not going to be as important as racing smart. I have a nice bike and I think now a decent motor but I still race stupid. But FWIW, I think that the people that say "OMG, U SHOULD BE ABLE TO WINZ ON A 30 YEAR OLD 25LB BIKE! IT'S THE MOTOR STUPID" are also wrong. Of course people do it, but at that point the difference in quipment is large enough that you need a much better motor or tactics to beat everyone else.

CastIron

All this leaves me to ask: does anyone even notice what's being raced while IN the race? Generally, I've bigger concerns after the whistle.

umd

Only in that I often remember people by their bike. But its more of a differential analysis than noticing what is actually is. On training rides where there are a lot of teammtes and we are all on the same bike, sometimes it's the little things like the saddle bag or wheel (e.g. one with a power tap, one without) that I'll look for to tell people apart...

Fat Boy

I notice bikes more than riders. If someone's on a ragged out old bike with wobbly wheels, I pay real close attention to what they're doing. It's possible that they will ride just fine, but when trying to figure out who is the next of us to eat asphalt and try to kill me, I do what I can to pay attention. This doesn't necessarily mean I'm a snob, hell, my bike isn't _that_ nice. It's just a way to distinguish people.

Racer Ex 

And if you're going up, weight is the Joker.

Coyote2

If that were my bike, I'd race the hell out of it and pray for a frame-breaking crash.