"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Dear Watt-heads,

Old 10-02-08, 06:03 PM
  #1  
Creakyknees
ride lots be safe
Thread Starter
 
Creakyknees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dear Watt-heads,

Please help me come to a clearer definition of "burning a match"

How many joules to a match? Do you have 5x as many zone 1 matches, as zone 5 matches? If I have leftover zone 2 matches at the end of a race, can I convert them to zone 11 matches?

thanks
Creaky
Creakyknees is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 06:09 PM
  #2  
wanders
going roundy round
 
wanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 6,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Converting joules to matches is tough. One man's match is another man's bonfire.
wanders is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 06:18 PM
  #3  
LT Intolerant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here is Hunter Allen's (Co-Author of Training and Racing w a PM) definition...

Time Percentage over Threshold Power Power needed to burn a 'match' assuming 300 Threshold Power.
1 Minute 20+ 360 watts
5 Minutes 15-20% 360-345 watts
10 Minutes 8-12% 324-336 watts
20 Minutes 0-8% 300-324 watts

The entire article can be found here...

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/match.asp
LT Intolerant is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 06:22 PM
  #4  
Creakyknees
ride lots be safe
Thread Starter
 
Creakyknees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wow... there's a serious answer? jeez I was just trolling.

hate it when that happens.
Creakyknees is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 06:34 PM
  #5  
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Of course there are serious answers.
Numbers are serious business.

-- The PE Man
YMCA is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 06:56 PM
  #6  
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 20,721
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 1 Post
I'll take a flame thrower to the peloton

gsteinb is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 07:23 PM
  #7  
yonderboy
Lurker for Life
 
yonderboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PDX
Posts: 908
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
wow... there's a serious answer? jeez I was just trolling.

hate it when that happens.
If you get a Qranium when they come out, it will tell you how many matches you have used.
yonderboy is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 07:27 PM
  #8  
LT Intolerant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
wow... there's a serious answer? jeez I was just trolling.
To quote the immortal Roberto DeVicenzo (who signed an incorrect scorecard and lost The Masters as a result)...

"I am such a stupid"

Signed

An at times "too serious" power geek
LT Intolerant is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 08:02 PM
  #9  
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,711

Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2312 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
Of course there are serious answers.
Numbers are serious business.
Amen.
__________________
"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is offline  
Old 10-02-08, 09:50 PM
  #10  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I usually just draw a grid line at FTP and at 130%, and look for wide peaks that go significantly above it.

This thread is really lacking graphs. Here's the last crit I won. All of the matches are solo attacks, including the winning WRI™. On the long one there, I got caught near the end of a prime lap, and it pissed me off, so I outsprinted the two guys who had just caught me. That should probably count for two matches.


Last edited by waterrockets; 10-02-08 at 09:54 PM. Reason: fixed match selection
waterrockets is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 12:38 AM
  #11  
fatallightning
Cat 666
 
fatallightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: nyack, ny (yes, that one)
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
how did your heart rate not vary more then that. robot!
fatallightning is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 04:32 AM
  #12  
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
More numbers.
So far this thread is 50/50.
YMCA is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 05:10 AM
  #13  
mazpr
Banned.
 
mazpr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Side
Posts: 384

Bikes: Tirreno Razza 900, Trek 750

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Aqui esta una formula para los chicos, facil de aprender!
mazpr is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 06:04 AM
  #14  
ottsville
sidelined
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 342

Bikes: 2005 Scattante R660, Kona Race Light SS conversion, 2007 Schwinn Fastback CX

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Is that some modified version of the shocker?
ottsville is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 06:41 AM
  #15  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fatallightning View Post
how did your heart rate not vary more then that. robot!
Actually, hr isn't in the graph. I haven't worn the hr strap in months. There's power, speed, and cadence.

Originally Posted by ottsville View Post
Is that some modified version of the shocker?
There's no way either of those are fitting in either place. Wait. What?
waterrockets is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 10:56 AM
  #16  
fatallightning
Cat 666
 
fatallightning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: nyack, ny (yes, that one)
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Actually, hr isn't in the graph. I haven't worn the hr strap in months. There's power, speed, and cadence.



There's no way either of those are fitting in either place. Wait. What?
ah i was looking at the bottom corner.
min 174 max 175 avg 174
fatallightning is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 12:08 PM
  #17  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fatallightning View Post
ah i was looking at the bottom corner.
min 174 max 175 avg 174
Ah, yeah, I must have gotten two samples off someone else's HR strap. I hope they were hurting
waterrockets is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 01:07 PM
  #18  
jmechy
Senior Member
 
jmechy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UCSB
Posts: 666

Bikes: 2006 Felt F3C

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
I usually just draw a grid line at FTP and at 130%, and look for wide peaks that go significantly above it.
Is there a way to make WKO automatically draw grid lines for every new file? Even though they aren't too difficult to add in, i'd like to not have to worry about it every time.
jmechy is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 01:14 PM
  #19  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,331

Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fatallightning View Post
how did your heart rate not vary more then that. robot!

Because he wasn't wearing an HRM. (At least its not displayed on the graph.)

And 174-175 HR in the table is noise, likely from sporadic pickup of another rider.

I have PT files like that with one or two entries for someone elses HR.



Edit: I should have read the whole thread first.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 08:35 PM
  #20  
JPradun
Pokes On Spokes
 
JPradun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 824

Bikes: Pedal Force ZX3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
How much do you weigh, waterrockets? What is your FTP?
JPradun is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 08:38 PM
  #21  
BananaTugger
CPM M4
 
BananaTugger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The West Side (Of Rochester, NY).
Posts: 4,930

Bikes: Light.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JPradun View Post
How much do you weigh, waterrockets? What is your FTP?
It's Over 9000.
__________________
Ten tenths.
BananaTugger is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 08:42 PM
  #22  
Dubbayoo
Senior Member
 
Dubbayoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,681

Bikes: Pedal Force QS3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wanders View Post
Converting joules to matches is tough. One man's match is another man's bonfire.
I predict this thread will turn into bonfire of the vanities.
Dubbayoo is offline  
Old 10-03-08, 09:00 PM
  #23  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,130

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by JPradun View Post
How much do you weigh, waterrockets? What is your FTP?
That day, two weeks ago, I was 183 lbs, FTP~345W.

Since then, I've shut it down and lost 5 lbs. I'm going to come out of this at 170-172, and so far I haven't lost any peak power (still sprinting strong when I to lighthearted tests). I'm just burning fat, and riding around at 270W to keep the burn going without getting crazy hungry.
waterrockets is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.