Laggard

The UCI is considering banning team car to rider radios. There's so much resistance to the idea though that it probably won't happen.

I personally never liked them. Then again, I'm really old school. Friction shifting works just fine for me.

I was quite dissapointed to hear Museeuw blame a poor ride at KBK on a radio failure. He's been riding long enough that he remembers a time where there were no radios.

Any opinions?

TriDevil

Some people are saying it makes the races somewhat predictable in terms of the sprinting teams always catching breakaways right before the line but look at CSC in Paris-Nice with Riis radioing instructions to them. Seems to me like Paris Nice has been exciting so far. If GC riders didnt know who was in the breakaways they would have to chase down everyone, then people would be complaining that the stronger teams with GC men are being selfish and dont need to chase everyone down, a little catch 22 I guess. I say they are here to stay and cycling is still great to watch. As for the riders blaming bad rides on radios, thats their own fault, they cant be totally dependent on them.

brent_dube

Well its different if a rider is relying on the radio for certain information, and they don't get that information. That wouldn't be the rider's fault... though it would be if they weren't told to rely on radio communication in the first place.

If they get rid of radios I think they should get rid of all communication with the cars... and of course get rid of teams, because riders could use teamates to get information for them too. And also, get rid of sponsorships, because then the riders wouldn't have the money to hire men to give them info about breakaways from the side of the road.

Xtrmyorick

Then we could stab out the riders' eyes, because otherwise they could use them to determine who goes out on a break if they're near the front.

khuon

Actually I think using domestiques as communications runners would add an interesting dimension to the sport, IMHO. Not that they don't already have enough things to do.

pinky

I just watched the 1999 or 2000 Lance/USPS documentary one of the things that stuck in my head was one of the riders saying how they've become dumb and dependant on the radios-then cutting to race footage where things were going to hell because the radios werent working.

bg4533

And while we are at it break all their legs so they can never break away in the first place.

I am new to cycling and when I first heard radios were allowed I was a bit suprised. I think cycling should be based only on the individuals abilities, not 50 coaches watching it all from the side. With the way things are going the racers might be on motorcycles in a few years (i.e. radios, electronic shifting, etc.).

khuon

I agree to an extent but I also like road racing because of the subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) tactics used. I like the fact that there is a team and that goes beyond just the people riding bikes. I like the fact that everyone has a role and what it takes to win is as much about logistics and resource management as it is about pedalling hard. I like the fact that there's a mental/intellectual element as well rather than just a pure physical one.

leadbutt

The biggest thing I see is that this IS a team sport...anybody that has won a race (if they're a good winner) gives credit to the TEAM...

It would make for an interesting change, but how long would it be interesting? With radio communication, everyone gets the info immediately...which allows for better strategies, faster moves, and overall, better racing.

What other team sports are there (with vehicles/wheels) that DON'T use radios?? Think about where some of those sports would be without them...Like someone said today on the Paris-Nice coverage: "Giving up radios ranks right there with going back to wool jerseys and leather helmets."

I guess the next step will be to put everybody on single-speed steel bikes...make em' wear regular clothes (imagine Lance on the podium in blue jeans and a Metallica T-shirt)...and have two water bottles: one for water, one for beer...

shucks, when that happens, I'll start racing...

Laggard

Actually, Paul said that Phil would love to see things as they were 30 years ago. Not that getting rid of car to rider radio is equal to forcing riders to ride single speed bikes, wear blue jeans (???) and leather helmets.

I get the feeling that most people here have only been watching bike racing during the reign of Lance. Two way race radios are a new innovation. You don't honestly think that Roche had an earpiece in '87 or Greg had one in '89? Eliminating race radio only rolls back a small part of the sport 10 years.

Two way radios turn riders into nothing more than machines. They eliminate the need for a rider to actually make up his own mind about what needs to be done. Do I need to go after that break? Hey, I'll just ask my DS who happens to be watching the race on TV! Is a win made less by the use of radios? Yes.

Laggard

Exactly. It eliminates the need to think.

khuon

The answer then is to not eliminate the race radio. The answer is to eliminate the live TV-coverage. That would hurt the sport though IMHO since it would kill a big part of the spectatorship. How about allowing only short-range communications between rider-to-rider (1/4 mile or less) and eliminating car-rider communications altogether? This way, if the team captain wants to maintain a commlink to the DS, he needs to properly position his domestiques or as I said in a previous post, use them as runners to bring not only water up to him but also information. It'll also add a new twist on the decision to attempt and maintain a breakaway or not too since by doing so, the person in the break will most likely lose comm support as well.

Laggard

I could live with rider to rider communications only. I just hate the idea of all decisions being made by the DS.

Quarterbacks in the NFL have coach to player radios built into their helmets. However, communication is not allowed while the ball is in play. Imagine how pathetic it would be if an offensive coordinator in the coaching booth was able to tell the quarterback exactly who was open during the play or if the QB was about to be hit. Completing the pass would still be a skill but you've removed the QBs need to think and make quick decisions.

It's the same thing with cycling. Riders no longer have to make snap judgements about what needs to be done. It's all dictated to them by the DS.

el Inglés

Can anybody honestly say the racing is better now than it was 10 - 12 years ago before race radios became common ?
All that´s happened is that too many of the riders act like they´ve had tactical lobotomies , can´t do it if they´re not told how .
You could try just letting them hear radio Tour ( the oficial race radio ), but no team orders .

Brillig

No doubt banning the radios would bring back a little of the intuition and instinct that is missing these days.

But I don't think it's practical. If you ban radios, they'll find ways to get the same message across. Even if it's hiring people to stand along the race route with hand signals, they'll find a way.

Allowing race radios just allows them to do it more easily and on a more even footing (i.e., richer teams would have a communication advantage over poorer teams).

Laggard

There have always been ways to get messages to riders. Used to be that a team car would have to pull up next to the rider to do it. Information isn't the issue really. It's how they get the info. The way things are set up now, a DS could in theory stay at home, watch the race on TV and radio orders to his riders.

Ingles is right. It's caused a dumming down of riders.

ChipRGW

In another thread they are talking about what a tactical genius Riis has been for Paris-Nice. Team radios MAY be dumbing down riders, but they are adding a new dimension at the same time. The DS has become a more vital, integral part of the TEAM. This is a team sport after all, right?
Besides the riders don't ALWAYS follow the DS' orders.

Laggard

Good point.

jkoman

I think the radios have killed off the break-away ...to some extent. When I first startd watching the TDF there were more small successful breakaways.

In coaching I'm trying to do a better job of teaching the kids what to do....how to make good decisions, rather than giving specific directions all the time. This is hard to do but you notice that in soccer as the kids progress they get coached more at practice and then play based on what they're taught vs. told what to do all the time.

More like survival of the fittest...got to have a good mind as well as body...thats who I want on my team

karesz3

I guess the truth maybe somewhere in the middle. While it’s impossible to turn back time, race radios took some excitement out of cycling. I think radios are very useful when they serve as additional safety features during a dangerous mountain descent. However, they kill off the break-aways on the flat courses. Perhaps they could allow radios on certain stages and not on others. Helmets now are mandatory on all but pure uphill mountain stages, so radios could be the opposite; banned on flat stages. Just my thoughts.


Cheers

leadbutt

The whole blue jeans reference was just a joke/poking fun at how serious this mess gets when someone starts whining about someone having too much advantage...everyone wants equal rights, when in fact they need to really just get stronger as an athlete/team both physically AND mentally..

I disagree...two way radios make riders make educated choices...if they're confident/cocky, they ignore the radio and the needs of their team/teammates maybe...If they're patient/attentive, they can work with everyone more efficiently maybe...but overall, it's the TEAM that wins...it's not just Lance or Tyler or Jan...it's their teams...

This whole thread sounds like the ramblings of a late-night beer/moonshine/stumpwater session held in my grandparent's basement... "NASCAR ain't real no' mo...back in my day, they drove harder and faster...didn't need no "are ducks" or "ray-dee-ull" tars...just a helmet and some leaded petrol...yep they wuz REAL racers..."

It'll always be better way back when...yep, sure will Andy...

wlevey

Anyone here RACE? Unless you are a PRO you usually don't have radeo communication of any sort! You have to learn to read the signs and react accordingly (as a team). That is wher team practices come in!! Back in the OLD DAYS they didn't have radeos and look at what they were able to do!!

One of the things that seperates our sport from other racing sports (F1, CART, NASCAR etc.) is the reliance on the synergy between rider and bike!! A smart rider will win over a dumb one with a radeo because he will know how to read the field and not rely on someone elses analysis (which might not be accurate given the moment to moment changes that can take place in a bike race).

Just my Humble Opinion...Bill

karesz3

Yes, I do race, but this discussion was/is about pro level events. I don't think that this thread sounds like useless trash talk. A lot of people had some valuable input, and the issue is not a simple one.

Cheers

wlevey

I didn't mean to imply that the discussion was "trash talk"! and I certainly didn't intend to insult anyone!!

I guess my opinion is that RELIANCE on radeo probably isn't the best thing, but that it can be useful as an aid (as in letting riders know of a major crash up the road that they will have to either stop for or find a way around).

My last two cents worth on the subject...Bill