"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

15/15

Old 10-09-08, 07:44 PM
  #1  
bad_mojo
The Loneliest Domestique
Thread Starter
 
bad_mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
15/15

DOK made me think of this. When you're doing 15/15 or 10/20s, how long does it take (in minutes) before you either vomit or get dry-heaves?

Last edited by bad_mojo; 10-09-08 at 07:50 PM.
bad_mojo is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 07:47 PM
  #2  
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,711

Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Ten minutes is the most I've ever tried.
__________________
"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is online now  
Old 10-09-08, 07:49 PM
  #3  
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 4,850

Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
First time I do them I'm good for only a couple of minutes before I'm spent.

By the end of the winter this past year, 400/250 for 5min, 300 for 5min, 400/250 for 5min was a pretty standard workout. 15s on/off for the 400/250. Pretty miserable.

I have some sort of mental block that prevents me from really killing myself indoors, though.
Duke of Kent is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 08:03 PM
  #4  
ElJamoquio
Burning Matches.
 
ElJamoquio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 9,711

Bikes: Motobecane Le Champion SL, Cervelo P2SL

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Really? I loved the 20/10 sec workout indoors for five minutes, because it was done, warmup to cooldown, in 45 minutes or so.
__________________
"The only good race pace is suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die."
-Steve Prefontaine
ElJamoquio is online now  
Old 10-09-08, 09:01 PM
  #5  
wanders
going roundy round
 
wanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 6,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Funny that this thread came up. I just got off my trainer about 15 minutes ago. 3 minutes, the answer is 3 minutes. I was planning on doing 10 minutes of 15/15. Started seeing spots 2 minutes in and was ready to put my trainer on craiglist. I haven't done anything under a minute since March.

Another limiter identified.
wanders is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 09:08 PM
  #6  
flyguy676
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 120

Bikes: 2008 Trek 2.3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
can you elaborate more? ive never heard of this
flyguy676 is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 09:15 PM
  #7  
wanders
going roundy round
 
wanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 6,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by flyguy676 View Post
can you elaborate more? ive never heard of this
Intervals. 15/15 on/off - 15 seconds as hard as you can go, 15 seconds tempo or less - Dukes' post above references wattage - 400/250. They will turn you inside out pretty quickly.
wanders is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 09:33 PM
  #8  
arexjay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 561
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like doing intervals like this. I usually go 2 minutes of 15/15, 5 minutes easy, and another 2 minutes of 15/15.

However, I thought the idea of this time of the year is to do steady base miles?
arexjay is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 09:36 PM
  #9  
bad_mojo
The Loneliest Domestique
Thread Starter
 
bad_mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by arexjay View Post
However, I thought the idea of this time of the year is to do steady base miles?
Be careful man. You might turn this into another SST discussion. We're here to discuss self-inflicted pain through interval training.

I usually do 10/20 5 minute blocks no problem with multiple sets per workout. Something about 15/15 -- I'm usually in the fetal position begging for mercy after 3-4 minutes. And let me get the first "HTFU" out of the way. Yes, I need to HTFU and do 15/15 like a man.
bad_mojo is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 09:43 PM
  #10  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,124

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I usually go for about 7-10 minutes. I hit these during my commute, so I only get one set each way. I train something else at lunch.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 09:44 PM
  #11  
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 4,850

Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by arexjay View Post
I like doing intervals like this. I usually go 2 minutes of 15/15, 5 minutes easy, and another 2 minutes of 15/15.

However, I thought the idea of this time of the year is to do steady base miles?
Keep on doing that.

Especially if you're a Pro/1/2 guy in the Midwest.
Duke of Kent is offline  
Old 10-09-08, 09:53 PM
  #12  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,124

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
waterrockets is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 04:46 AM
  #13  
Lithuania
Oh The Huge Manatee
 
Lithuania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: mabra
Posts: 4,528
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I did two 10 minute sets of these a couple weeks ago and while I never throw up after things like this I was seriously hurting.
Lithuania is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 06:43 AM
  #14  
SpongeDad
Overacting because I can
 
SpongeDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Posts: 4,552

Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Even an my meager fitness level, my tire slips on 15/15s on the trainer - pretty much have to do them outside.
__________________
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
SpongeDad is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 07:06 AM
  #15  
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lithuania View Post
I did two 10 minute sets of these a couple weeks ago and while I never throw up after things like this I was seriously hurting.

Then you are doing them at a lower intensity than prescribed by most BF'ers. Going absolutely all-out for 15" and resting 15", for as long as you can handle, involves a serious amount of vomit control. And nobody can last longer than about 5'.
YMCA is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 07:10 AM
  #16  
Lithuania
Oh The Huge Manatee
 
Lithuania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: mabra
Posts: 4,528
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
guess not
Lithuania is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 07:15 AM
  #17  
Lithuania
Oh The Huge Manatee
 
Lithuania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: mabra
Posts: 4,528
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think ive only ever had one moment in cycling where I thought I might throw up and that was at the end of a cross race last year.

Of course ive only thrown up once in my lifetime as far as i can remember.
Lithuania is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 07:23 AM
  #18  
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't understand why anyone would do 15/15's, or 10/20's very often at vomit intensity. Is there some physiological response that you can't get from doing them at a slightly lower effort, like pre-vomit intensity.
YMCA is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 07:25 AM
  #19  
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 4,850

Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
I don't understand why anyone would do 15/15's, or 10/20's very often at vomit intensity. Is there some physiological response that you can't get from doing them at a slightly lower effort, like pre-vomit intensity.
We're all trying to raise our VT (vomit threshold), YMCA. Duh.
Duke of Kent is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 07:37 AM
  #20  
Coyote2
Senior Member
 
Coyote2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,393
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I can do 10/20s for five minutes before quality seriously deteriorates...But I have never felt like vomiting. I think some people -- like supermodels -- are more prone to vomiting than others.
Coyote2 is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 07:50 AM
  #21  
Snuffleupagus
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
 
Snuffleupagus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 4,166

Bikes: Irish Cycles Tir na Nog, Jack Kane Team Racing, Fuji Aloha 1.0, GT Karakoram, Motobecane Fly Team

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
I don't understand why anyone would do 15/15's, or 10/20's very often at vomit intensity. Is there some physiological response that you can't get from doing them at a slightly lower effort, like pre-vomit intensity.
This is probably the only workout I have to do indoors. If I'm really throwing down for 15/15 after a few minutes I'm, all sarcasm aside, at a pretty solid risk of crashing on the road...
Snuffleupagus is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 09:02 AM
  #22  
YMCA
starting pistol means war
 
YMCA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: Cervelo R3

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent View Post
We're all trying to raise our VT (vomit threshold), YMCA. Duh.
Thank you. I now have one more acronym to add to my vernacular.
I like it.
I may even make new PE names.

beyond-VT
VT
sub-VT
well below-VT
VT recovery ride
YMCA is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 10:42 AM
  #23  
Fat Boy
Wheelsuck
 
Fat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Lithuania View Post
I think ive only ever had one moment in cycling where I thought I might throw up and that was at the end of a cross race last year.

Of course ive only thrown up once in my lifetime as far as i can remember.
I'm in the same boat. I start feeling like hell, but I never actually puke. I've played a lot of sports and had a lot of hard workouts. Even 3-a-days football practice in high school didn't make me chunder, and people were dropping like flies during those.

Anyway, I can do 10 minute sets of these. They aren't easy by any stretch of the imagination. They really suck. I'm not tricky enough to have a powertap, but on my HR I am in zone 5A (mid 180's) for the entire time. Even in the 15s off period, my HR only drops a couple beats. You get really sick of hearing the Garmin going beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beeeeeeeeeeeep!
Fat Boy is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 12:40 PM
  #24  
palookabutt
pedo viejo
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 538

Bikes: Specialized Allez, Salsa Pistola

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wanders View Post
Intervals. 15/15 on/off - 15 seconds as hard as you can go, 15 seconds tempo or less - Dukes' post above references wattage - 400/250. They will turn you inside out pretty quickly.
I can see how this would benefit road/crit racers -- task-specific training. Any benefit for us wimps/mortals who only do time-trials and centuries?

Aside from finding our VT, that is?
palookabutt is offline  
Old 10-10-08, 12:57 PM
  #25  
DrWJODonnell
Slow'n'Aero
 
DrWJODonnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driving the pace in the crosswind
Posts: 2,599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So called microburst intervals are great for raising FTP. I always do ten minutes. I never go all out though. I take FTP and add/subtract 100 watts. Very similar to Tabata intervals which one normally does for 4 minutes and are also documented to help with FTP.

For those of you who can only do these for a few minutes, do you not normally race crits? I ask because I am not normally a crit racer, but when I do, I suffer as with these intervals, but 10 minutes doesn't seem to be too bad. I would think the crit racers could do these for 20 or 30 minutes without too much terror.
DrWJODonnell is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.