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Old 03-02-11, 07:50 AM
  #3101  
slynkie
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i psyched myself out way too much beforehand to even have a chance at succeeding.

i'll give it another go next week probably.

thanks
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Old 03-02-11, 08:01 AM
  #3102  
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Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
^ wow, nice numbers SP

so, i've gotta ask the collective. assuming FTP is accurate (tested within the last month), should it really be possible to complete this workout? -
2x20' @ 100%, every 2' jump to 120% for 30". Rest 5' in between.
Rest 5'
2x5' @ 115%
I've been doing a workout very similar to that, but the 20' efforts are at ~90-95% of ftp. Kind of a Crisscross type of workout.
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Old 03-02-11, 08:18 AM
  #3103  
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Yeah, that workout doesn't sound off the deep end to me. Nothing really hard in there, it's just a matter of staying on top of your cadence and making sure you stay fluid. It will hurt, but probably not to failure.

I've been doing 20s with similar variance to them (but random), coming out 5-10% over FTP for the intervals. If I dropped that down to FTP, with the surges, I'd have enough left in the tank for the 5s at the end.
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Old 03-02-11, 08:18 AM
  #3104  
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Originally Posted by Nate552 View Post
I've been doing a workout very similar to that, but the 20' efforts are at ~90-95% of ftp. Kind of a Crisscross type of workout.
95% sounds much saner to me. i mean, it's still gonna hurt (a lot), but it should be doable every time unless you're having a bad day. i kinda feel like i'd need to be having an amazing day to complete the whole thing with the 20' @ 100% (plus bursts)
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Old 03-02-11, 08:20 AM
  #3105  
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ok.

*crawls back to lurker status until HTFU is achieved*
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Old 03-02-11, 08:22 AM
  #3106  
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Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
Considering that people use 20' intervals minus 5% to estimate FTP, and each of these 20' intervals would average out to 103.7% of FTP - and then the 5' intervals on top?
I think you missed something.. Many people use a 20' all out field test minus 5% to estimate FTP, not 20' intervals. There's a difference, if you do one 20' all out field test you're likely done for the day. If you're doing 20' intervals, they're probably a little less than all out and you can get a couple of them in.

Regardless, the workout doesn't sound impossible, just not a heck of a lot of fun. Bring a friend to keep you motivated through it.
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Old 03-02-11, 08:27 AM
  #3107  
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Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
I think you missed something.. Many people use a 20' all out field test minus 5% to estimate FTP, not 20' intervals. There's a difference, if you do one 20' all out field test you're likely done for the day. If you're doing 20' intervals, they're probably a little less than all out and you can get a couple of them in.

Regardless, the workout doesn't sound impossible, just not a heck of a lot of fun. Bring a friend to keep you motivated through it.
I didn't miss anything, I just misspoke. The all out test is sort of my whole point. If you do a 20' all-out test at roughly 105% of FTP and you're done for the day, how is it possible to do 2x20' @ basically (and with an AC component!) 103+ %, then 2x5' @ 115% afterwards?

Does going -1.5% easier than an all-out 20' test really provide enough rest/recovery to do so much more?
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Old 03-02-11, 09:20 AM
  #3108  
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I think it does make it enough easier. That last 1.5% is the hard 1.5%
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Old 03-02-11, 09:31 AM
  #3109  
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fair enough! thanks all.
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Old 03-02-11, 09:51 AM
  #3110  
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When I do my 2x20's, and actually all my workouts, my coach has me do a 5min VO2max interval as part of the warm-up. That way if I get my 20's anywhere near what my test number is I know I'm having a really good day....

This past weekend he had my skip the VO2 and I found the first interval was harder then normal...I think the legs enjoy getting warmed up hard
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Old 03-03-11, 02:20 AM
  #3111  
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I am a WKO newbie and encounter a problem. i know all you advanced user got an answer for me, so here we go
I did a workout with one 5 min all out first, then rest for 5 min. and then 10 3 min on, 3 min off workout.
as i download my file. i can see the total workout TSS and 5 min TSS. however my 10 sets of 3 min TSS are missing .
why is that?
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Old 03-03-11, 06:56 AM
  #3112  
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Originally Posted by chumanshow View Post
I am a WKO newbie and encounter a problem. i know all you advanced user got an answer for me, so here we go
I did a workout with one 5 min all out first, then rest for 5 min. and then 10 3 min on, 3 min off workout.
as i download my file. i can see the total workout TSS and 5 min TSS. however my 10 sets of 3 min TSS are missing .
why is that?
The TSS calculation requires NP, which I think is only calculated for durations >= 5min.
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Old 03-03-11, 08:38 AM
  #3113  
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correct.

If you want the TSS for the 3' intervals, just select them all, and divide by the number of intervals. That will include recovery TSS, but that actually is training stress.
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Old 03-04-11, 04:36 AM
  #3114  
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yeah i have realized any duration less than 5 min will not have a showing TSS, however, the total workout will show tss. tks for the answer guys.
just did a 10 * 3 min vo2max. as u can see my power drop from 300 to 272 watt. but good thing i completed 10 sets.

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Old 03-04-11, 09:42 AM
  #3115  
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Originally Posted by chumanshow View Post
yeah i have realized any duration less than 5 min will not have a showing TSS, however, the total workout will show tss. tks for the answer guys.
just did a 10 * 3 min vo2max. as u can see my power drop from 300 to 272 watt. but good thing i completed 10 sets.

cheer
You need to watch your power and make sure it doesn't drop off too much. There is a percentage of power that you want to stay within. If your power drops off too much, then you aren't stressing your system enough to get enough of a benefit to be worth the muscular breakdown. Something like that. I can't find the specific article, but here is something pretty related that you should once over. http://www.fascatcoaching.com/rightw...intervals.html
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Old 03-04-11, 10:54 AM
  #3116  
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Originally Posted by ridethatbike View Post
You need to watch your power and make sure it doesn't drop off too much. There is a percentage of power that you want to stay within. If your power drops off too much, then you aren't stressing your system enough to get enough of a benefit to be worth the muscular breakdown. Something like that. I can't find the specific article, but here is something pretty related that you should once over. http://www.fascatcoaching.com/rightw...intervals.html
tks for the advice. i have been training under the book "training and racing with power meter" by dr. allen. i remember there's a graph saying that 3 min interval power should not drop more than 9% from the 3rd interval. that is wut i aimed for. my 3rd was about 290 so 91% of it is 265 which i held it all the way to the 10th interval. just for your referrence.
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Old 03-04-11, 11:26 AM
  #3117  
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^ % of power for intervals is discussed in The Book, but Hunter Allen also just published an article that discusses it briefly, with a handy table of suggested power dropoffs:
http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/...wledge-of.html

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Old 03-04-11, 12:06 PM
  #3118  
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Originally Posted by slynkie View Post
^ % of power for intervals is discussed in The Book, but Hunter Allen also just published an article that discusses it briefly, with a handy table of suggested power dropoffs:
http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/...wledge-of.html

lol, this method doesn't provide an analysis that would let you bail on an interval workout until after the 4th one. I rarely do more than 5 intervals.
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Old 03-04-11, 02:53 PM
  #3119  
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
lol, this method doesn't provide an analysis that would let you bail on an interval workout until after the 4th one. I rarely do more than 5 intervals.
I'd also offer that if you can calculate the percentage in dropoff, you aren't doing the interval hard enough. ;-)
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Old 03-04-11, 06:49 PM
  #3120  
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hey all,

I'm sort of new to the sport and have been training with purpose with just HR for quite some time now (almost a year) and my performance is way way beyond what it was when I first started I'm sure. But for the first time I'm starting to dabble in structured anaerobic endurance with durations around 3 minutes and I can see how a power meter could be useful. I've made attempts at structuring workouts with gear size and holding a a cadence that would put me in a certain zone, but with wind and hills and all that... it only sort of works.

I'm seriously considering getting a PowerTap wheel from eBay, but often I'll find just a wheel, or just a hub, or just an electropak. If I choose, say, a wireless hub/wheel, would it work with all the PT wireless head units? With all Garmins? What if it were wired instead? Also, what would be a good price for say, a Pro+ laced to the standard OpenPro wheel? Any other buying advice?
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Old 03-04-11, 07:21 PM
  #3121  
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Originally Posted by ridethatbike View Post
I'd also offer that if you can calculate the percentage in dropoff, you aren't doing the interval hard enough. ;-)
haha, btw, i keep my iphone handy so that's how calculation was done.
cheer
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Old 03-06-11, 04:59 PM
  #3122  
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Does anyone know what it means when you hit numbers above your CP curve? (besides the fact that your PM might be miscalibrated).
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Old 03-06-11, 06:10 PM
  #3123  
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Your CP and AWC is calculated the following way:

GC keeps a record of the highest avg power for a given length of exertion. To keep the data valid, it's preferred that one data point is between 3-5 minutes and the other is between 15-60 minutes. Furthermore, preferred that both done around the same time (within 7 days of each other) to ensure validity.

From here, GC calculates the energy expenditure for a given length of exertion (avg power (watts) x time (in seconds) = joules). By some algorithm, it picks the two points on the Energy vs Time graph that would give the STEEPEST slope. With the slope and the intercept (anaerobic work capacity measured in kJ), you can calculate energy expenditure for any given period of time, and when you divide that number by the length of duration, you obtain your CP curve.

Given all this, it is likely that the number you obtained is indeed correct, but it won't change your CP curve because it would not give an overall higher slope as described above. Though a few more watts and/or longer duration, that point is now the "anchor point" upon which your CP is calculated

Btw, i just went into GC and tried out some calculations. I must not have found the exact points i was looking for and ended up with two values that were close enough to provide the AWC to the kilojoule and a 60' power that was within 5 watts of the numbers CP used.
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Old 03-08-11, 08:05 PM
  #3124  
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Actually a bit hesitant to ask this...

I got my first PM about 6 weeks ago, an SRM for my TT bike to help me train for a couple HIMs this year along with some sprints/olys that are more for fun. Last year was my second cycling and first actually doing any type of structured training.

I did a 30 min. all out on my trainer soon after getting it and averaged 220 watts. I had no expectations so this was fine, I established my zones and trained the next 6 weeks using them. These were all indoor rides on my TT bike. The number seemed accurate and the workouts were hard.

The weather has finally gotten a bit better but there is still a lot of sand and pot holes on the road. I wanted to ride my road bike so I got a PowerTap for it so I could keep track of everything in WKO+.

I did a pretty hard 2 hour ride this past weekend and it has thrown everything off. I averaged 232 watts (zeros excluded) and my normalized power in WKO+ was 244 watts. Completely threw off my TSS. I noticed while riding things were weird and it felt like I could hold 270 watts. I used this as my FTP for the ride and all looked good in WKO+.

Went for another ride today on my road bike, a bit easier and averaged 231 with a normalized power of 236 watts. Obviously riding outdoors is different than on my trainer...or is it the SRM???

I put 50 lbs. on my pedal on the PowerTap bike to do a stomptest...within 1%. SRM doesn't seem to have a way to do this with my Garmin Edge 800.

Now, my actual question. Does this sound plausible? I am not a wuss indoors. I do no have great cooling, but I can't even hold 270 for much more than 5 mins on my crappy mag trainer before crapping out. It is not a psychological thing of riding indoors. I am 6'5", about 195 lbs. right now, and have pretty good strength (basketball/weight lifting background...endurance training for a year). I averaged finishing at about the 10th percentile in cycling leg of the triathlons I did last year.

I know I need to go a ride on the TT bike to at least seem if it all makes sense, but the road are still in ***** shape and the pot holes are huge...make me a bit nervous. Just trying to figure the numbers out before my WKO+ gets too far out of whack! Thanks!

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Old 03-08-11, 08:23 PM
  #3125  
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I'm 99% sure you should always include zeros in averaging.
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