Bad day for a few sprinters though.. Farrar hurt shoulder of some type , Garmin took a big hit on that one... O'Grady.. 1 broken and more bruised ribs.. out for the classics.
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Originally Posted by classic1
(Post 8578629)
Yes and no. The Poggio isn't that tough, it's not a 10% Marco Pantani climb. After 290km it might be a different matter though.
Somebody shoot me. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 8578911)
Oh, you think?
Somebody shoot me. |
i actually had cavendish as a favorite....he seemed to be in great form, although i thought also of petacchi. Haussler hadn't occured to me as a high finisher!
sucks about o'grady! MSR seems to be deadly for nasty crashes.... |
Originally Posted by classic1
(Post 8578977)
Ok, how about 'the Poggio isn't that hard and any half decent amateur could race over it on the big ring'. Does that clear things up for you?
Try to remember that Lance got dropped on these late in the day MSR climbs that you think are so easy. The poggio is 3700 meters long, that's 2+ miles. We do a little hill in Harlem (Central Park 35+ race) that's about 400 meters long in the big ring and it can be tough when the hammer is down. A 3700 meter climb is longer than most amateur racers would ever really sustain in similar gearing to the pros. And after 180 miles? Fughedaboudit. All theoretical and debatable, but I come down on the side of 'most amateur cyclists have a distorted notion of their own capabilities' side. Most of my own delusions have been beaten out of me by the USCF. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 8579060)
Try to remember that Lance got dropped on these late in the day MSR climbs that you think are so easy.
The poggio is 3700 meters long, that's 2+ miles. We do a little hill in Harlem (Central Park 35+ race) that's about 400 meters long in the big ring and it can be tough when the hammer is down. A 3700 meter climb is longer than most amateur racers would ever really sustain in similar gearing to the pros. And after 180 miles? Fughedaboudit. All theoretical and debatable, but I come down on the side of 'most amateur cyclists have a distorted notion of their own capabilities' side. Most of my own delusions have been beaten out of me by the USCF. |
>> a Cat 1 or 2 <<
How many of those do we actually have in the USA? <3,000? How many licensed USCF cyclists? 75,000? How many 'fitness riders'? 8-10 million? My point is that the Poggio would be challenging terrain even for most racing cyclists, let alone the rest of BF, and after 180 miles at race pace, it's a whole other story in my view. Hence Lance's shelling. I think it's the point in the race that makes it a ball breaker more than the terrain. I still find it amazing some of these 'sprinters' who can't climb can get over any climb in the lead group < 2 miles long in most races. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 8579392)
>> a Cat 1 or 2 <<
How many of those do we actually have in the USA? <3,000? How many licensed USCF cyclists? 75,000? How many 'fitness riders'? 8-10 million? My point is that the Poggio would be challenging terrain even for most racing cyclists, let alone the rest of BF, and after 180 miles at race pace, it's a whole other story in my view. Hence Lance's shelling. I think it's the point in the race that makes it a ball breaker more than the terrain. I still find it amazing some of these 'sprinters' who can't climb can get over any climb in the lead group < 2 miles long in most races. On another issue, did you see this little snippet from your link about the record for the Poggio? sources list the record as 5'22" by Giorgio Furlan in 1994 |
Stop arguing with me.
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Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 8579483)
Stop arguing with me.
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So by classic1's accounts, Nike should have never named their shoes Poggio's, it should be "Nike Mt. Doom".
Also, it's "Let alone" not "little own". I always avoiding typing that because "little own" made no sense. Then I read the correct way somewhere. |
So does this mean that cervelos don't actually suck as bad as pharding was saying?
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Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 8572175)
I guess there was nothing wrong with the S2/S3 bicycles today.
Your lights are on, but you're not home Your mind is not your own Your heart sweats, your body shakes Another frame, was what it takes You can't eat. You can't sleep Your favorite bike, it just got beat A kid named Cav, got up the hills He says his Scott, it gives him thrills Whoa, you like to think that that frames really up to snuff, oh Yeah Closer to the truth is that first loser ain't the stuff You know you're gonna have to face it your ADDICTed to second Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second Might as well face it you're ADDICTed to second |
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Cavendish winning the first day TT at the Tour of Britain in 07. He went backwards from then on. Hope 09 doesn't go the same way.
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44.4k avg for almost 300k (that's 27.5mph for the metrically challenged).
Imagine sitting in a pack for 7 hours and rolling at 31mph for stretches that never end. Then climbing at ballistic speeds. And fighting the whole damn time to hold position within 200 riders. Now how many of you youngin's really think you can find this level? Stay in college. |
Almost. |
Any hill can be hard if you go hard enough. Harlem hill isn't hard. What makes it hard is guys who are tentative on the descent before the hill, and then the fact that the point on the course where the race gets hardest is just after the hill. Instinctively guys want to coast on a descent that doesn't happen there. So if you get gapped before the hill, and then have to chase up and over across a gap you've got problems.
Same thing happens at Jiminy peak. The climb isn't that hard, and it can be big ringed. But what makes it hard is that guys blast down the other end and gaps open. Tiorotti Brook Road isn't hard either at 15-16 miles an hour, but try it at 22. It's a different universe. I couldn't ride 180 miles. I'm honestly not sure why anyone would even want to. |
Originally Posted by patentcad
(Post 8580391)
Characterizing R. Palmer as a 'poet' is almost as dumb as calling Pcad a 'bike racer'.
Almost. Poet. Not. |
Originally Posted by gsteinb
(Post 8580425)
Any hill can be hard if you go hard enough. Harlem hill isn't hard. What makes it hard is guys who are tentative on the descent before the hill, and then the fact that the point on the course where the race gets hardest is just after the hill. Instinctively guys want to coast on a descent that doesn't happen there. So if you get gapped before the hill, and then have to chase up and over across a gap you've got problems.
Thank you Jesus. Further proof that God watches out for drunks, bums, and posers, and since I have 2/3 of that covered, He is in my corner. |
Thank Bernie, not Jesus.
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I watched a DVD of the race the other night. Worst MSR I have ever seen. Totally disappointing. One pissy attack on the Cipressa, then tempo riding almost to the top of the Poggio before mediocre attacks near the top by Rebellin (to little) and Pozzato (too late). I'm not criticising the first two place getters, but any wonder the likes of Cavendish, Haussler and Bennati were able to haul their carcasses over the Poggio.
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Originally Posted by classic1
(Post 8641360)
but any wonder the likes of Cavendish, Haussler and Bennati were able to haul their carcasses over the Poggio.
Bennati is really not a pure sprinter. He has been pigeonholed by his team, because of the fact that he can. Cav was just plain motivated. But I see your point, in that monuments shouldn't have such large groups at the finish. |
Originally Posted by YMCA
(Post 8641431)
I'll have to disagree on Haussler. That guys form has been "beyond" a sprinter.
Bennati is really not a pure sprinter. He has been pigeonholed by his team, because of the fact that he can. Cav was just plain motivated. But I see your point, in that monuments shouldn't have such large groups at the finish. |
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