Sportmanship
03-24-09, 06:50 PM
#1
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Sportmanship
Is it ok not to work in a 2-man breakaway, and then just wait til the end and win the sprint over the other guy who been pulling the whole time?
03-24-09, 06:57 PM
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Don't do that.
03-24-09, 06:57 PM
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03-24-09, 06:58 PM
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edit: Of course, my statement above was predicated on there not being any sort of "agreement" made in the break.
03-24-09, 07:00 PM
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I suppose there could be other factors, if it's in a stage race and depending on the GC. But if this is a straight up race, no. Not cricket.
03-24-09, 07:01 PM
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Unfunny story. I was in a LOW attended master's race last year. 7 guys from one team against me. 8 people in the field. We lost two guys and via a bunch of attacks it was me and one other guy racing for 5th and 6th place. He rode my wheel for 20 minutes of the 40 minute crit and sprinted past me for the coveted 5th place. Congratulations, ****** bag.
03-24-09, 07:02 PM
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I suppose there could be other factors, if it's in a stage race and depending on the GC.
03-24-09, 07:17 PM
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A few years ago in the TdF, George Hincapie got into a 4 or 5 man break several minutes up the road from Lance Armstrong who was in yellow. Hincapie was under no obligation to work, but just to hang on to the break and defend against an attack by someone who was close in time to Armstrong. The attack never came and Hincapie rode the trolley to the top, came around, and took the stage.
03-24-09, 07:36 PM
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03-24-09, 07:52 PM
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There was an interesting thing at Bethel in the Cat 4 race this weekend, where there was almost a fight for 1st place.
It was a 2 man break, and one guy was a lot stronger than the other guy and did a lot more work. At the end of the race, he wanted the 2nd guy (weaker dude) to win. They argued a little but the weaker guy took the win. They crossed holding hands.
A better write up:
From, you guessed it, CDR.
Link to post: https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...el-cdp_23.html
It was a 2 man break, and one guy was a lot stronger than the other guy and did a lot more work. At the end of the race, he wanted the 2nd guy (weaker dude) to win. They argued a little but the weaker guy took the win. They crossed holding hands.
A better write up:
My teammate John had a great race in the 4s. Last week he managed to win the field sprint, with a huge leadout from teammate Todd, behind a charging Guido Wollmann. This week, early in the race, he went noodling off the front in search of a prime or something. Wollmann chased him, they linked up, and in one lap they had a 30 second gap.
Problem was this was something like 2 laps into the race, and the field was full of fresh legs ready to pummel those that try to get away. Wollmann, admittedly the stronger of the two riders, made sure the break stayed away, with John contributing a good amount too. The field dwaddled, never committing to the violent chase necessary to close gaps like this. At the end John wanted Wollmann to win, but Wollmann wanted John to win. After arguing while holding their hands up a la "Hinault-Lemond", Wollmann got his way and John got his first win, coasting, in his small ring. I suppose that if one guy does more work but wants you to win anyway, might ss well take it!
Problem was this was something like 2 laps into the race, and the field was full of fresh legs ready to pummel those that try to get away. Wollmann, admittedly the stronger of the two riders, made sure the break stayed away, with John contributing a good amount too. The field dwaddled, never committing to the violent chase necessary to close gaps like this. At the end John wanted Wollmann to win, but Wollmann wanted John to win. After arguing while holding their hands up a la "Hinault-Lemond", Wollmann got his way and John got his first win, coasting, in his small ring. I suppose that if one guy does more work but wants you to win anyway, might ss well take it!
Link to post: https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...el-cdp_23.html
03-24-09, 08:12 PM
#14
Making a kilometer blurry
Not cool. Legal, yes, but it will come back to haunt you if you do this.
In Colorado in 1991, my mentor (Mason Rickard, US Nat A team member) was in a big crit and found himself off the front of the P12 race with Randy Whicker (the year he won Redlands). Mason tried to pull, but found himself really slowing things down, so he just sat in and suffered. They got to w/in 50m of lapping the field (which was strung out over three corners) in the last lap.
Going into the sprint, Mason stood and feigned a jump just to get Randy to launch. Mason swung his bike around for the crowd, but made sure that Randy won by a lot. Randy knew what had happened, and remembered it.
Later that year, Mason got 5th on Mt. Evans (~1:53, beating Alexi Grewal), and Randy had towed him across a big gap to repay him.
It all comes back, the good and the bad. If you want the win that bad, take some pulls and fight for it.
In Colorado in 1991, my mentor (Mason Rickard, US Nat A team member) was in a big crit and found himself off the front of the P12 race with Randy Whicker (the year he won Redlands). Mason tried to pull, but found himself really slowing things down, so he just sat in and suffered. They got to w/in 50m of lapping the field (which was strung out over three corners) in the last lap.
Going into the sprint, Mason stood and feigned a jump just to get Randy to launch. Mason swung his bike around for the crowd, but made sure that Randy won by a lot. Randy knew what had happened, and remembered it.
Later that year, Mason got 5th on Mt. Evans (~1:53, beating Alexi Grewal), and Randy had towed him across a big gap to repay him.
It all comes back, the good and the bad. If you want the win that bad, take some pulls and fight for it.
03-24-09, 09:47 PM
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Unfunny story. I was in a LOW attended master's race last year. 7 guys from one team against me. 8 people in the field. We lost two guys and via a bunch of attacks it was me and one other guy racing for 5th and 6th place. He rode my wheel for 20 minutes of the 40 minute crit and sprinted past me for the coveted 5th place. Congratulations, ****** bag.
Seriously...I'm not getting it. If I'm in a 2 man break and the other guy isn't taking pulls, if there's no agreement about him not sprinting if he doesn't work, then I either sit up or figure out how to drop the guy. Sometimes it's better to give up a guaranteed 2nd if it means you forfeit your chance to win...just ask Chris Horner
If you pull around some guy for a whole race without doing anything about it, and then you let him win, you only have yourself to blame.
03-24-09, 09:59 PM
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But trying to explain this to an amoral person is a waste.
Um, yeah. Someone did:
George, meet Karma. Karma, you already know George.
03-24-09, 10:36 PM
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So...answer the question I asked above. How is sitting in behind one person and then sprinting for a win different than sitting in behind a whole pack and then sprinting for a win? Is it just because there's less people?
03-24-09, 10:56 PM
#21
Making a kilometer blurry
In a successful 2-man break, everyone is guaranteed 1st or 2nd.
03-24-09, 11:01 PM
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I agree with tanhalt. Though when i've been in those situations I've made a deal with the person before hand and they haven't sprinted for the win. If they don't want to make a deal then they obviously have a reason (working for a teammate, break up the road with a teammates, etc), and then it's up to you to get rid of them. I've never had someone who was sitting on and didn't have a reason, not go for the deal.
03-24-09, 11:14 PM
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Besides, the scenario being discussed isn't really a "successful 2-man break" since only one of the riders is putting in the effort to stay away. It's basically a solo breakaway with a "cling-on"...and by allowing the "cling-on" to get away with it, the worker is guaranteeing himself a 2nd place, with a minuscule chance at first. That doesn't sound like smart racing to me...
edit: I forgot to ask - Do you really think position in a pack is irrelevant to finishing place?
03-24-09, 11:18 PM
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I think it would be bad form but if the guy pulling can't ride him off his wheel and there's no deal between the two then the race is up for grabs.
I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn't do it.