"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Sketasaurus Rex?

Old 04-13-09, 03:06 PM
  #1  
fauxto nick
Cat 3 Meter - Don't Care
Thread Starter
 
fauxto nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Sketasaurus Rex?

So I'm about to jump into the 4's and I know I still have some habits that need cleaning up. I really don't want to be the dreaded sketch racer in the 4s. I feel like I'm decent as far as not being a sketchy rider but there are always things you don't know you're doing. So I figured a thread listing all the things we dislike other racers doing during races might be helpful for us noobs.

I'll start...

OVERLAPPING WHEELS
fauxto nick is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 03:13 PM
  #2  
jrennie
Race to train
 
jrennie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: suffering on the back
Posts: 3,115
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yelling (braking, slowing, etc.)

spitting in the middle of the pack

crashing

Kits that have been worn one to many time and are a little thin
jrennie is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 03:20 PM
  #3  
Duke of Kent
Senior Member
 
Duke of Kent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 4,850

Bikes: Yeti ASRc, Focus Raven 29er, Flyxii FR316

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Originally Posted by fauxto nick View Post
So I'm about to jump into the 4's and I know I still have some habits that need cleaning up. I really don't want to be the dreaded sketch racer in the 4s. I feel like I'm decent as far as not being a sketchy rider but there are always things you don't know you're doing. So I figured a thread listing all the things we dislike other racers doing during races might be helpful for us noobs.

I'll start...

OVERLAPPING WHEELS
What's wrong with overlapping wheels?
Duke of Kent is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 03:26 PM
  #4  
fauxto nick
Cat 3 Meter - Don't Care
Thread Starter
 
fauxto nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Duke of Kent View Post
What's wrong with overlapping wheels?
Maybe it's not as big of a deal in the higher CAT races but the general concern as far as I know is you start to overlap someone's wheel and that person makes a sudden move and pulls left or right (which is obviously going to happen) and bam you go down most likely. I've never crossed my front wheel with someone else's but I hear most people instantly go down. I guess in the faster races it's more strung out and those sudden moves aren't as common but I've never heard anyone really say yah overlapping wheels is chill, I've been repeatedly warned not to do it so I followed the advice.
fauxto nick is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 04:00 PM
  #5  
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 28,387

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well you have to overlap someone's wheel, it's not like races are perfect 2x2 pacelines...
umd is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 04:03 PM
  #6  
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 28,387

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The key thing is to protect your front wheel.
umd is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 04:32 PM
  #7  
fauxto nick
Cat 3 Meter - Don't Care
Thread Starter
 
fauxto nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Originally Posted by umd View Post
Well you have to overlap someone's wheel, it's not like races are perfect 2x2 pacelines...
Well definitely I'm not saying I've never overlapped but I'm talking about people who are just crossing it up really tight to get a close draft I see that a lot, to me it doesn't seem necessary.
fauxto nick is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 04:58 PM
  #8  
Hocam
Ho-Jahm
 
Hocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
He means when someone is drafting you but their front wheel is overlapping your rear by a few inches and just off to one side. That's the kind of stupid crap that causes random crashes for no reason.
Hocam is offline  
Old 04-13-09, 05:17 PM
  #9  
fauxto nick
Cat 3 Meter - Don't Care
Thread Starter
 
fauxto nick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Hocam View Post
He means when someone is drafting you but their front wheel is overlapping your rear by a few inches and just off to one side. That's the kind of stupid crap that causes random crashes for no reason.
Yah that's what I'm talking about, not like when you're in the middle of the peloton and you are next to a rider but not perfectly squared up with him, I just need when someone can't hold it behind a wheel and keeps going to the side of it dangerously close.
fauxto nick is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 06:31 AM
  #10  
Creakyknees
ride lots be safe
 
Creakyknees's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
the biggest thing I'd advise is, no sudden moves.

it's common to get boxed in, if you want to get out, just ease up on the pedals ever so slightly and be aware of where guys are around you. don't be pushing on people because you're in a hurry to get to open air.

cornering - be aware of who's inside and outside of you and adjust your line / speed so they have room to turn safely... it's uncool to run people off the road. don't be the arse who goes blowing up the outside or inside at the last moment and cuts everybody off.

attacks / selections / sprints... everybody's on the limit, things get hairy. some riders sit up, others are going full blast with their heads down. keep your awareness about you and try to ride as straight a line as you can (yeah, you'll have to move around some to pass guys and get wheels, but no curb-to-curb dives, please)

relax. breathe.
Creakyknees is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 11:23 AM
  #11  
aicabsolut
Senior Member
 
aicabsolut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,505

Bikes: 2006 Specialized Roubaix Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
the biggest thing I'd advise is, no sudden moves.

.. it's uncool to run people off the road.
+1 These often go together.

My biggest peeve is when someone decides s/he wants to make up a better line in a corner regardless of where the rows of people in front have gone and who is to the sides. The pack doesn't always take the ideal line. Particularly when you are several people wide, the best line is often impossible to obtain. You've just got to adjust accordingly and follow the wheel in front of you. When people decide they want to take another line and run someone off the road/make sudden moves/cut someone off, then bad stuff happens.
aicabsolut is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 11:25 AM
  #12  
fordfasterr
One speed: FAST !
 
fordfasterr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ft. Lauderdale FL
Posts: 3,375

Bikes: Ebay Bikes... =)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
when entering a corner, don't dive out and then sweep back in... almost making an " S " shape... without considering the riders on the inside that you'll chop.
fordfasterr is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 11:30 AM
  #13  
Frunkin
nom nom nom
 
Frunkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,096

Bikes: Lemond Tete de Course, Slingshot DDX, Fuji Track Pro, Surly Steamroller

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Don't freak out when people touch you. Either with their hands or their bikes. Either hold your line or slowly ease out of the contact.
Frunkin is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 12:04 PM
  #14  
Fat Boy
Wheelsuck
 
Fat Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,158
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
While in the pack, be smooth. No sudden braking. No sudden accelerations. No sudden steering inputs. You just gotta chill out and make small, smooth adjustments.
Fat Boy is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 12:07 PM
  #15  
timster
ɹǝʇsɯıʇ
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 840

Bikes: 2011 Focus Whistler // 2011 Cannondale CAAD10 // 2009 Scattante XRL TT // 1993 Cannondale R400

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by jrennie View Post
spitting in the middle of the pack
I think spitting/snot rockets are fine as long as you do them under your arm/bars and straight to the ground. To either side is a big no-no.
timster is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 12:14 PM
  #16  
wfrogge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by umd View Post
Well you have to overlap someone's wheel, it's not like races are perfect 2x2 pacelines...

+1..... The difference between CAT 5/4 and 1/2/3 right there
wfrogge is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 12:27 PM
  #17  
cmh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Many new racers don't understand when it is OK to overlap someones wheel. For example, the bike in front of you has a bike close on his left, he isn't going to swing that direction so feel free to overlap left. If the bike is on the side of the pack with open pavement to the left, they are likely to swerve that direction if any contact is made or just to move up or attack. In that case, be very wary of overlapping on the left side. This is just one example. It is mostly a matter of experience understanding when you really shouldn't overlap wheels, and to what side. This is what a lot of people mean when they say 'protecting your front wheel'.
cmh is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 12:42 PM
  #18  
chrisvu05
Legs of Steel
 
chrisvu05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: On my bike
Posts: 1,835

Bikes: Pegoretti Marcelo, Cannondale six13

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
*****ing about what I'm doing while you're sitting on my wheel in the back of the pack....If you don't like my wheel (I'm a good draft at 230+) go find another one...if you don't like what is happening and you are in the back of the pack you should move the F up and quit acting like everyone else is riding for you.


note: This happened last week in a race and I'm still obviously annoyed by it. It told the guy what happens behind my hip is no problem of mine and if he didn't like he could talk to me afterwards...but it was said in a little harsher tone.
chrisvu05 is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:05 PM
  #19  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,368
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
read the 'we're going to yell at you' thread.
botto is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:11 PM
  #20  
currand
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Being completely inconsiderate of people who are behind you is what causes a lot of crashes. Just because you don't see someone out of the corner of your oxygen-deprived eye doesn't meant they aren't there. And the adage "if your handlebars are in front of the other guy's you own the road" is just as bad.

Just because you CAN be a dick doesn't mean you SHOULD.
currand is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:22 PM
  #21  
umd
Banned
 
umd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 28,387

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac SL2, Specialized Tarmac SL, Giant TCR Composite, Specialized StumpJumper Expert HT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by currand View Post
Being completely inconsiderate of people who are behind you is what causes a lot of crashes. Just because you don't see someone out of the corner of your oxygen-deprived eye doesn't meant they aren't there. And the adage "if your handlebars are in front of the other guy's you own the road" is just as bad.

Just because you CAN be a dick doesn't mean you SHOULD.
The way I see it, if you don't have position on someone you have to be ready for anything that they may do. If you do have postion on someone, it gives you the right to pick your line or move around to some degree but it does not give you the right, as you said, to be a dick.
umd is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:27 PM
  #22  
aicabsolut
Senior Member
 
aicabsolut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,505

Bikes: 2006 Specialized Roubaix Comp

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Originally Posted by cmh View Post
Many new racers don't understand when it is OK to overlap someones wheel. For example, the bike in front of you has a bike close on his left, he isn't going to swing that direction so feel free to overlap left. If the bike is on the side of the pack with open pavement to the left, they are likely to swerve that direction if any contact is made or just to move up or attack. In that case, be very wary of overlapping on the left side. This is just one example. It is mostly a matter of experience understanding when you really shouldn't overlap wheels, and to what side. This is what a lot of people mean when they say 'protecting your front wheel'.
This puts too much faith in the logical behavior of lower category racers (both in the overlapper and the overlapped).
aicabsolut is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:35 PM
  #23  
vladav
Senior Member
 
vladav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 259
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
@FauxtoNick,

Although we haven't met, I'm sure we've raced together. I haven't noticed any of the PAA guys being too sketchy, so I doubt you have a big problem to work on.

What worked for me recently is to have the team ride together (duh?) and post-race discuss what happened. When someone would critique how I rode, the question that really helped was "did my actions make you nervous?" And I didn't ask the teammate with the the biggest brass ones, I asked the more nervous guys. There's a difference between "I didn't *like what you did" vs "if you risk my safety for absolutely no reason again - I'll beat you with my cleat"

Anyways, welcome to the 4's!
vladav is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:45 PM
  #24  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
my biggest complaint about cat 3/4/5 is the absence of continued "stretching the elastic". weak people go out the back, but not enough strong go off the front. I think this is because everyone is looking for upgrade points so the racing is often negative and defensive instead of aggressive.

so, often (even in cat 3) there is a small breakaway up the road by 10 to 30 seconds, and then a ball of riders following. when the small breakaway is caught, the ball of riders just becomes a ball + breakaway. or, single riders try to bridge and fail, then bridge and fail instead of working with a few others to really put the pressure on the front of the group, so the field catches up and it's again a ball of riders. that's when crashes seem to happen.

conversely, put 1s and 2s in the mix and you have alot more single file hammering going on, which is almost always more fun, not to mention safer.

dont be afraid to grab the bull by the horns.

*this post written by the doofus who has been dropped from so many breakaways I've lost count
MDcatV is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:48 PM
  #25  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,368
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Originally Posted by currand View Post
Being completely inconsiderate of people who are behind you is what causes a lot of crashes. Just because you don't see someone out of the corner of your oxygen-deprived eye doesn't meant they aren't there. And the adage "if your handlebars are in front of the other guy's you own the road" is just as bad.

Just because you CAN be a dick doesn't mean you SHOULD.
if applied responsibly: incorrect.
botto is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.