"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Transponders

Old 04-13-09, 10:37 PM
  #1  
fetad
drive-by poster
Thread Starter
 
fetad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 212

Bikes: Yes(s)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Transponders

I'm very new to racing (5 races so far) and loving it so far. One thing I'm not very impressed with is the transponders though. I think they are required for every race here in Florida.

In my first race I noticed that my friend who finished behind me by 1 or 2 seconds was put 1:30 ahead and 2 places ahead of me.

In my 3rd race I finished 6th but was placed 1st on the results for a week. Then my time was set to 0:00:00, but I was correctly placed in the results.

This past weekend at the Webster - Roubaix race I finished in a pack sprint less than a minute from 1st place but the race results show me 20 minutes behind the leader finishing by myself in 21st place. It was more likely somewhere around 10th if I can reliably use the groups of finishing times placed ahead of me.

Are the results and reporting just a questionable in the lower categories? I'd probably be less annoyed if I wasn't required to pay for this service.

As a side note, I think promoters should skip transponders for Cat 5 races. They should keep the barriers to entry as low as possible.
fetad is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 04:20 AM
  #2  
NomadVW 
部門ニ/自転車オタク
 
NomadVW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 3,173

Bikes: 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, 2012 Blue Norcross CX, 2016 Blue Axino SL, 2016 Scott Scale, Fixie, Fetish Cycles Road Bike (on the trainer)

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Did you stay to protest any results?

Eg.. the 20 minutes behind and 21st place probably means it "missed" a lap on the counter.

I've only had one problem with a transponder placing me 11th vs 1st (it missed my first lap, apparently), but I was 30 seconds up on the break group and even the break group came to ensure my correct placing.
__________________
Envision, Energize, Enable
NomadVW is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 05:34 AM
  #3  
mikearena
Glorified Blender
 
mikearena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Are you renting a chip? The people that own chips have their number permanently in the database, but they have to enter the numbers for everybody that rents them every weekend. Not sure how that would effect the results, but it seems like that's how it works.
mikearena is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 05:45 AM
  #4  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,331

Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Your point about skipping transponders in Cat 5 actually makes sense, given that placings in Cat 5 races don't actually matter.

However, its not going to happen. People like to know their results, as the existence of your thread confirms. And more imortantly, its revenue to the promoters, orginally to pay for the system,and now likely profit.

As for your experiences, I'd have to say they aren't typical in my experience. Couple of times, I've moved down in the official results a place or two as a result of someone else not showing up where they belonged (usually an issue with the chip number being recorded correctly) And I got listed as a 10th place finish in a race where I was much farther back (I think confusion with a rider of the same name.) But for the accuracy of the chip itself, I haven't noitced significant problems in 40 or so races.

And if you do have problems where it matters,that's why there's a protest period, and videotape.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 05:58 AM
  #5  
kensuf
My idea of fun
 
kensuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: '06 Litespeed Tuscany, '02 Kona Lavadome, '07 Giant TCR Advanced, '07 Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've only had my results screwed up on 2 races in the last two years of running the transponders. And it only mattered in one of them where the pay-out was 10 deep, but we got that fixed during the protest period. The other race, I was way out of the money and points so I didn't really care.

If you think this is bad, you should have seen it before the transponders. My favorite "result" was watching little Justin Pfaff "clock" a 27.5mph 7 mile TT (he was 11 at the time). His own father called "bull$h!t" on that one.
kensuf is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 07:49 AM
  #6  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,496

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I have only been to 1 race where the placings were NOT screwed up. Welcome to 4/5 racing. It doesn't matter to anyone but us.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 08:00 AM
  #7  
Flatballer
No matches
 
Flatballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 11,094

Bikes: two wheeled ones

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why is Florida requiring the chips? Isn't it just easier to use videotape and a couple officials? Where do you put them anyway? How do they know who wins a close sprint, do they still check the tape?
Flatballer is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 08:56 AM
  #8  
mollusk
Elite Fred
 
mollusk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edge City
Posts: 10,893

Bikes: 2009 Spooky (cracked frame), 2006 Curtlo, 2002 Lemond (current race bike) Zurich, 1987 Serotta Colorado, 1986 Cannondale for commuting, a 1984 Cannondale on loan to my son

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a different transponder screw-up. I own my own and yet I am on the "naughty" list for allegedly not returning a rented one. I've sent an email, but haven't gotten any response. Good thing that I paid cash for the entry fee so there is no credit card swipe.
mollusk is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 09:56 AM
  #9  
Pizza Man
Racing iS my Training
 
Pizza Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,263

Bikes: 07 Bianchi San Jose, 08 Tarmac SL2, 05 Cervelo P3

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Transponders can be useful (for example for scoring everyone in a pack in a stage race with the same time), but more often than not I've seen results messed up when they're used. I think they should be secondary to officials eyes and cameras, not used as the primary source for results.
Pizza Man is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 10:11 AM
  #10  
Bobby Lex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I like 'em.

BTW, they explained the technical difficulties with the chips at Webster-Roubaix: Apparently a power cord that they ran under the timing mat interfered with the electrical impulses from the chips.

Bob
Bobby Lex is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 01:13 PM
  #11  
dmotoguy
Edificating
 
dmotoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 2,452

Bikes: Spooky + Sachs

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I haven't heard of any issues at local races with our transponders in the last 3 or so years..

I was at a race in utah this weekend and it had quite a few errors...In one of the categories I'm pretty sure they had a guy listed as winner that hadn't even shown up.
dmotoguy is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 01:54 PM
  #12  
fetad
drive-by poster
Thread Starter
 
fetad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Posts: 212

Bikes: Yes(s)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NomadVW View Post
Did you stay to protest any results?

Eg.. the 20 minutes behind and 21st place probably means it "missed" a lap on the counter.

I've only had one problem with a transponder placing me 11th vs 1st (it missed my first lap, apparently), but I was 30 seconds up on the break group and even the break group came to ensure my correct placing.
Nope I haven't protested any results. The placings change later anyhow when they post online. It usually takes about 1.5 hours after the race for initial results and Cat5 is always the last race of the day. I end up taking off most of the time after an hour because there is no more racing to watch.


Originally Posted by mikearena View Post
Are you renting a chip? The people that own chips have their number permanently in the database, but they have to enter the numbers for everybody that rents them every weekend. Not sure how that would effect the results, but it seems like that's how it works.
I was renting chips initially, but I purchased my own for the last 2 races after I saw how much I enjoyed the sport.

Originally Posted by Bobby Lex View Post
I like 'em.

BTW, they explained the technical difficulties with the chips at Webster-Roubaix: Apparently a power cord that they ran under the timing mat interfered with the electrical impulses from the chips.

Bob
I see that now, thanks. I imagine they are getting 1st, 2nd, and 3rd correct for the medal winners, which is all that matters.

Flatballer, the transponder goes on the fork and is held in place with 1 or 2 zip ties. I don't know what the officials use for placing other than the chips and racer protest.

The placing doesn't matter now, but I was wondering if this was to be expected when I will probably will care. Sounds like if you're in the top 25 you should wait around. Are people protesting by showing their personal bike computer numbers? Sometimes Cat 5 races with 4 and it's quite a mix. I don't know my exact place to even protest.
fetad is offline  
Old 04-14-09, 02:35 PM
  #13  
Snap
old & slow
 
Snap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fleming Island, FL
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My experience has been ok with the chips.

Most times results are posted within a few minutes and the placings seem to be correct. The only time I have had a question, I was not counted for my last lap on a road race. The promoters happened to ask me if everything looked right and after I mentioned the error they quickly fixed it, even though I told them that I was far enough down it really didn't matter.

I'm happy enough using transponders. When they only used video, you were lucky for the officials to post 25 places.
Snap is offline  
Old 04-15-09, 06:57 AM
  #14  
sleazy
everyone has a plan...
 
sleazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: planet earth
Posts: 541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
all the posts about the chips being the lesser evil are absolutely correct.

before the transponders- (and i'm talking still (35mm SLR) camera shots, some guy's ancient VHS camcorder on a tripod, or worse yet- three officials trying to write down numbers)... i ran into a number of cases where the local club guys or the favorite hotshot got "preferential" placement.

over the last 30-odd races ive done with the chip system- ive had no real complaints. sounds like Webster had a technical difficulty which they have discovered and fixed.
sleazy is offline  
Old 04-15-09, 07:07 AM
  #15  
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 30,331

Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fetad View Post
. Are people protesting by showing their personal bike computer numbers? Sometimes Cat 5 races with 4 and it's quite a mix. I don't know my exact place to even protest.
I doubt they'd pay much attention to your computer.

Note the people (and numbers) of the people around you at the finish.

The "protest" is typically a bunch of guys standing around saying I know I was just behind Fred, and Joe was just behind me,etc. sorting it out.

If Team X rider finishes 4th, and you know you finished just behind Team X rider, you pretty much know you're 5th.

If no one disagrees, they'll likely put you 5th. And at least it gives them a place to start looking on the videotape.

Also, keep your jersey on when you protest, so the officials know what they're looking for on the tape.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.