3-minute all-out CP test
#1
Making a kilometer blurry
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3-minute all-out CP test
Well, I tried the 3' all-out CP test today.
First off, freaking OUCH. This is probably the most pain I've ever been in while still on the bike. There's this point at 1:50-2:00 where I was getting REALLY uncomfortable, slowing, so I stood to get back on top of it. Well, my legs weren't there, and I almost fell on my top tube. So I sat back down and punished my legs for letting me down. At about 2:15, it got a little easier again (not more powerful, just less painful).
I haven't been able to download the data yet, but I think I probably leveled off around 360W at the end. I was surprised to be still doing pretty well (380-390) at 2:15. Sure enough though, it faded for a bit more, then leveled off (again, just from my glances at the 10s averaging on my PT).
So, 360W CP... my MAP is 500W, which would indicate 360W to 385W FTP. In my own testing, my best guess was 350-355W FTP, which would mean a CP around 340-345W? I dunno, either this test might be a bit high, or I'm a wimp when I do threshold work and have been shooting low with my FTP.
I do have high confidence that I burned through my AWC during this test though. That near collapse out of the saddle was a strange experience. Also, I did two 1' intervals at 80% of max (650W), before the test. Sort of for warmup, sort of for some training.
Graph coming later tonight.
Good test, but holy crapy it's tough.
First off, freaking OUCH. This is probably the most pain I've ever been in while still on the bike. There's this point at 1:50-2:00 where I was getting REALLY uncomfortable, slowing, so I stood to get back on top of it. Well, my legs weren't there, and I almost fell on my top tube. So I sat back down and punished my legs for letting me down. At about 2:15, it got a little easier again (not more powerful, just less painful).
I haven't been able to download the data yet, but I think I probably leveled off around 360W at the end. I was surprised to be still doing pretty well (380-390) at 2:15. Sure enough though, it faded for a bit more, then leveled off (again, just from my glances at the 10s averaging on my PT).
So, 360W CP... my MAP is 500W, which would indicate 360W to 385W FTP. In my own testing, my best guess was 350-355W FTP, which would mean a CP around 340-345W? I dunno, either this test might be a bit high, or I'm a wimp when I do threshold work and have been shooting low with my FTP.
I do have high confidence that I burned through my AWC during this test though. That near collapse out of the saddle was a strange experience. Also, I did two 1' intervals at 80% of max (650W), before the test. Sort of for warmup, sort of for some training.
Graph coming later tonight.
Good test, but holy crapy it's tough.
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45 seconds-3 minute cp tests BLOW. all i want to do is vomit afterward.
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So the point is to bust your balls all the way to the end and the power that you end at is equal to your ftp? ugh, that sucks.
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Looking at this:
3-min All Out CP Test
How exactly do you do this test? All out from the beginning (almost a sprint) or just try to keep an average of x-watts?
3-min All Out CP Test
How exactly do you do this test? All out from the beginning (almost a sprint) or just try to keep an average of x-watts?
#7
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
I'd be a lot more excited about such a ride if I had a TT bike...
correct
correct
I tried to go all-out from the beginning, but my legs seem to know when I'm tricking them. My first minute was only 631W, which would be "ok" for a 1' interval, but clearly not all-out. I did sprints yesterday, and had already done two 1' intervals today around 650W, so my AWC had already taken a reasonable hit.
That's the cool thing about this test, I don't think you need to be 100% fresh like you would for a 60' test. It also didn't seem to mess me up too bad. I was holding 330W on the way home without pain or suffering. Legs actually feel ok -- and they sure as hell wouldn't with a 60' test.
But, yeah, it's still the toughest thing I think I've done on the bike, and I can take some pain. This is tougher than I thought it would be.
correct
Looking at this:
3-min All Out CP Test
How exactly do you do this test? All out from the beginning (almost a sprint) or just try to keep an average of x-watts?
3-min All Out CP Test
How exactly do you do this test? All out from the beginning (almost a sprint) or just try to keep an average of x-watts?
That's the cool thing about this test, I don't think you need to be 100% fresh like you would for a 60' test. It also didn't seem to mess me up too bad. I was holding 330W on the way home without pain or suffering. Legs actually feel ok -- and they sure as hell wouldn't with a 60' test.
But, yeah, it's still the toughest thing I think I've done on the bike, and I can take some pain. This is tougher than I thought it would be.
#8
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
Ok, so the data.
My final 15 seconds averaged 355W, which is exactly where I'd set my FTP in WKO+. This is a DAMNed fine test. To. The. Watt.
The final 30s, I go up to 368W. I clearly hadn't leveled off yet. I think it's better to approach this test visually than by picking a static number of samples to average. Most riders probably would level off for the full 30s, but I think I have a lot more AWC than most riders.
Here's the chart (that dip is a right-hand corner I had to take -- it didn't matter much):
My final 15 seconds averaged 355W, which is exactly where I'd set my FTP in WKO+. This is a DAMNed fine test. To. The. Watt.
The final 30s, I go up to 368W. I clearly hadn't leveled off yet. I think it's better to approach this test visually than by picking a static number of samples to average. Most riders probably would level off for the full 30s, but I think I have a lot more AWC than most riders.
Here's the chart (that dip is a right-hand corner I had to take -- it didn't matter much):
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I don't think the 3 minute CP test is 1:1 with FTP. My 5 minute CP much higher than what I could sustain at a one hour level.
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Ok, so the data.
My final 15 seconds averaged 355W, which is exactly where I'd set my FTP in WKO+. This is a DAMNed fine test. To. The. Watt.
The final 30s, I go up to 368W. I clearly hadn't leveled off yet. I think it's better to approach this test visually than by picking a static number of samples to average. Most riders probably would level off for the full 30s, but I think I have a lot more AWC than most riders.
Here's the chart (that dip is a right-hand corner I had to take -- it didn't matter much):
My final 15 seconds averaged 355W, which is exactly where I'd set my FTP in WKO+. This is a DAMNed fine test. To. The. Watt.
The final 30s, I go up to 368W. I clearly hadn't leveled off yet. I think it's better to approach this test visually than by picking a static number of samples to average. Most riders probably would level off for the full 30s, but I think I have a lot more AWC than most riders.
Here's the chart (that dip is a right-hand corner I had to take -- it didn't matter much):
Now you should calculate the total area above CP...
#11
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
My average power over the 3 minutes was only 470W. My 3-minute power (CP3) is probably around 540W right now, also way over my FTP.
I don't think going all-out from the beginning is not ideal for any test over around 2 minutes. Above that, and you really need to pace it somewhat. So, I could hit 540W with smart pacing (hard start, then settle in).
The key here is to burn through all your anaerobic work capacity, and not really care about the shape of that curve too much, but just make sure you knock it out of there as quickly as possible.
Then, you just look at the end of the graph, where it's level (probably the last 15-30 seconds).
Thanks.
Umm. Hang on.
#12
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
Ok, I took the 3' sample in .csv. Added up all the positive Watt differences (W - 355, where W > 355), and multiplied by 1.26 (seconds/sample). For each sample, that gives me an area of Watts * Seconds. So, that would be J/s * s = J, right?
21,753J
Sounds really low to me.
Without the - 355 (just total Watts), it's 78,800J, so that's aerobic + anaerobic. I guess that's correct, because WKO+ shows me at 84,000J for the 3' effort, and that's counting the readings below 355W (so it should be higher).
EDIT: yeah, the method checks out, because if I add all samples * 1.26, I get 84,781J, which is pretty much the same as what WKO+ is telling me.
21,753J
Sounds really low to me.
Without the - 355 (just total Watts), it's 78,800J, so that's aerobic + anaerobic. I guess that's correct, because WKO+ shows me at 84,000J for the 3' effort, and that's counting the readings below 355W (so it should be higher).
EDIT: yeah, the method checks out, because if I add all samples * 1.26, I get 84,781J, which is pretty much the same as what WKO+ is telling me.
Last edited by waterrockets; 04-20-09 at 06:54 PM.
#15
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
The 1' test from last month, was 806W. Assuming CP at a lower 350W back then, that comes out to 27,577J spent above 350W. At the current 355W CP estimate, I'm seeing 27,275J (not a big difference).
#16
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
I think there's a factor of a loosely defined "AWC" in exercise physiology. What time period is AWC to be measured?
Looking at my last 1125211 pyramid, the area above 355W comes out to 107,387J for the ride. So, recovery has an effect. Of course, that' doesn't explain my lower value for the 3' test.
I think the difference for today's test and my 1' test may actually be ATP. I didn't hit my start as hard as I usually do. That's the sprint power, and I think the total work measurement with maximal efforts must come into play there. For my 1' test, I started off at 1400W. Today, I was only starting at 1100W, so the ATP wasn't utilized (maybe due to the sprints yesterday).
I wonder what duration Monod was thinking for his AWC calculation (I know, I just need to look it up -- gotta make our sack lunches for tomorrow now, and get the kids' stuff ready. Enough time spent on this for now...).
Looking at my last 1125211 pyramid, the area above 355W comes out to 107,387J for the ride. So, recovery has an effect. Of course, that' doesn't explain my lower value for the 3' test.
I think the difference for today's test and my 1' test may actually be ATP. I didn't hit my start as hard as I usually do. That's the sprint power, and I think the total work measurement with maximal efforts must come into play there. For my 1' test, I started off at 1400W. Today, I was only starting at 1100W, so the ATP wasn't utilized (maybe due to the sprints yesterday).
I wonder what duration Monod was thinking for his AWC calculation (I know, I just need to look it up -- gotta make our sack lunches for tomorrow now, and get the kids' stuff ready. Enough time spent on this for now...).
#17
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1120W for the initial jump? hahahahhahaha... wimp!!
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#18
Making a kilometer blurry
Thread Starter
^^^ agree. It's amazing how the legs are like "Dude, you're not fooling us. This ****'s going for 3 minutes. You can shove the first 5" up your seat tube."
So.... who else is in for this test? Time for war stories and comparison of accuracy.
It's only 3 minutes. C'mon. Surely someone here wants to know, to the Watt, what their CP is?
FWIW: I felt good on the commute home, and normal/strong on the commute in this morning. I don't think there's any training impact (maybe the same as a 3' interval). Once you tear through your AWC, you really don't have the strength to do any more damage
This is a lot lower impact than even a 20' test, and so far, the accuracy looks awesome.
So.... who else is in for this test? Time for war stories and comparison of accuracy.
It's only 3 minutes. C'mon. Surely someone here wants to know, to the Watt, what their CP is?
FWIW: I felt good on the commute home, and normal/strong on the commute in this morning. I don't think there's any training impact (maybe the same as a 3' interval). Once you tear through your AWC, you really don't have the strength to do any more damage
This is a lot lower impact than even a 20' test, and so far, the accuracy looks awesome.
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How bad do you think it would mess up my 5' intervals I have planned tonight? I'm thinking it might drop the wattage a little, but I'd still probably get just as much benefit out of them.
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^^^ agree. It's amazing how the legs are like "Dude, you're not fooling us. This ****'s going for 3 minutes. You can shove the first 5" up your seat tube."
So.... who else is in for this test? Time for war stories and comparison of accuracy.
It's only 3 minutes. C'mon. Surely someone here wants to know, to the Watt, what their CP is?
FWIW: I felt good on the commute home, and normal/strong on the commute in this morning. I don't think there's any training impact (maybe the same as a 3' interval). Once you tear through your AWC, you really don't have the strength to do any more damage
This is a lot lower impact than even a 20' test, and so far, the accuracy looks awesome.
So.... who else is in for this test? Time for war stories and comparison of accuracy.
It's only 3 minutes. C'mon. Surely someone here wants to know, to the Watt, what their CP is?
FWIW: I felt good on the commute home, and normal/strong on the commute in this morning. I don't think there's any training impact (maybe the same as a 3' interval). Once you tear through your AWC, you really don't have the strength to do any more damage
This is a lot lower impact than even a 20' test, and so far, the accuracy looks awesome.
I'll try it at the end of next week.
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#24
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I might have to give this a try later this week. I've had a PT for a few weeks now, maybe it's about time I try to actually figure out what my FTP is.
#25
fair weather cyclist
In my own testing, my best guess was 350-355W FTP, which would mean a CP around 340-345W?