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 06-03-09, 07:10 AM #1 MDcatV Senior Member Thread Starter   Join Date: Dec 2006 Bikes: Posts: 6,760 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 1 Post(s) % FTP for 1' intervals Power question. Background: I did 1' intervals this a.m. consisting of 4 sets of 3x1'on/2'off (the loop I use takes about 3' to complete so at times the 2' off fluctuated up to 2'30") I did each by just going hard, 1st 2 reps of each set were all seated, last rep required an out of the saddle jump to get started and an out of the saddle jump to finish. My avg. power for each 1' effort was between 140% and 170% FTP. Question: is this where 1' efforts of others tend to fall or do you pace them more carefully? Just wondering. Epilogue: 1' intervals always hurt lots, pre 6:00 a.m. they really, really hurt. hard to believe how long a minute can be.
 06-03-09, 07:18 AM #2 bdcheung Carpe Diem     Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MABRA Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1 Posts: 13,149 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) I go with the Coggan method. I'll do three intervals, look at the average power from the last one, and use that to judge when i've overworked my system. I am trying to find the chart, but for 1' intervals Coggan recommends stopping once your average power falls 10% below your third-interval average. __________________ "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works." ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
 06-03-09, 07:20 AM #3 waterrockets  Making a kilometer blurry     Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin (near TX) Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection Posts: 26,130 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) That's not a bad range for them, but the short recoveries are going to push you more towards VO2Max work than pure AWC stress. I take > 5' recoveries and tend to work in the 180-200% range. I don't really pace them, but rather go some percentage of all-out for the duration. All the interval profiles start with a huge spike, then fall off (that WRI™ profile). So the shape is similar to a 1' test, just not quite as high up.
 06-03-09, 07:25 AM #4 bdcheung Carpe Diem     Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MABRA Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1 Posts: 13,149 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) i guess to directly answer the question though, I did 1' repeats this past weekend and averaged 180% FTP for all intervals. There was about 3-5' rest between each interval. These were 1' climbing intervals where I started seated, and about 3/4 of the way up I stood, downshifted and attacked the top. __________________ "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works." ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
 06-03-09, 07:34 AM #5 MDcatV Senior Member Thread Starter   Join Date: Dec 2006 Bikes: Posts: 6,760 Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 1 Post(s) ^thanks for the input. 180%+, you guys are demons. I was thinking that I finally reached manhood with the range I was hitting, given that L6 is >121%. I guess I am just wussy ...
 06-03-09, 07:36 AM #6 snoboard2 County sign fanatic     Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Zanesville, Oh Bikes: Masi Gran Criterium (training), looking for the money for a racing bike Posts: 782 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) the difference in % of FTP for 1 min intervals between two people could be night and day based on their power profile, current fitness etc. The best advice would be something like bd and wr mentioned. Try grabbing a buddy (for motivation, you'll need it) and doing 4-6 1 minute intervals with 5 minutes rest in between each. Take a peek at the power data when you get home. The quantity and output you should be shooting for in training will pop out at you. When your power starts to fall on the 5th or 6th one, that's what you're looking for.
 06-03-09, 07:41 AM #7 nitropowered Senior Member   Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens, Ohio Bikes: Custom Custom Custom Posts: 5,104 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I dont pace 1 min. I find a hill with no traffic and go all out for one minute and then roll back down and repeat. Doing it on a hill is easier than flat since it forces you to go hard.
 06-03-09, 07:53 AM #8 bdcheung Carpe Diem     Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MABRA Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1 Posts: 13,149 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) MDcatV: My 1' intervals from here until RTCGP, though, will be paced slightly above the power it took me to go uphill in that race. __________________ "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works." ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
06-03-09, 07:57 AM   #9
MDcatV
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 Originally Posted by bdcheung MDcatV: My 1' intervals from here until RTCGP, though, will be paced slightly above the power it took me to go uphill in that race.
from corner 5 to the s/f?

imo, rtcgp is more about cornering and positioning than it is about power

this year, it's the day after poolesville, so it might be more about recovering than anything else!

 06-03-09, 07:59 AM #10 bdcheung Carpe Diem     Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MABRA Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1 Posts: 13,149 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) I think it's corner 5. The corner coming around the parking garage after bombing down New Dominion road. For the past couple years RTCGP has been, for me, about 1) Recovering from being awake since 5am to road marshal and sweep the course; 2) Getting up that ****ing hill. __________________ "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works." ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
06-03-09, 08:16 AM   #11
MDcatV
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 Originally Posted by bdcheung I think it's corner 5. The corner coming around the parking garage after bombing down New Dominion road. For the past couple years RTCGP has been, for me, about 1) Recovering from being awake since 5am to road marshal and sweep the course; 2) Getting up that ****ing hill.
corner 5 is the one with all the blood on it, including some of mine.

tip - getting through corner 5 fast (and upright) is key to success in this race, there has been a prevailing help wind through corners 6, 7, and 8 since they've been introduced into the race and being tucked in the draft there can get you sucked right up to the s/f stretch where you just need to hang on to turn 1 (<300M). After turn 1, it's downhill to turn 5, the key there is to not have gaps to close or to spin yourself out.

Last year, I was 5th wheel coming out of turn 1 on the last lap, the dude that won was on the front. He goes about 190# to my 145# and he was actually coasting down the hill at times while I was hammering just to keep my position, when we got to turns 5 -->8 he was fresh, so when we started sprinting, he had alot of pop and beat me by a rim width.

 06-03-09, 09:03 AM #12 procrit carbon is too light     Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Bikes: Cannondale Road / Orbea TT Posts: 950 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I think you should probably base your 1' interval power off of your 1' max test. Mine are done around 85% of my max 1', some higher, some lower. If I based it on FTP, I would be doing them around 225%.
 06-03-09, 09:07 AM #13 bdcheung Carpe Diem     Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MABRA Bikes: 2007 CAAD9; 2014 CAADX; PedalForce CG1 Posts: 13,149 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) 85% of my max 1' would be 189% of my FTP... __________________ "When you are chewing the bars at the business end of a 90 mile road race you really dont care what gear you have hanging from your bike so long as it works." ΛΧΑ ΔΞ179 - 15% off your first Hammer Nutrition order!
06-03-09, 12:15 PM   #14
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 Originally Posted by procrit I think you should probably base your 1' interval power off of your 1' max test. Mine are done around 85% of my max 1', some higher, some lower. If I based it on FTP, I would be doing them around 225%.
Yeah, when testing around 810-820W, my 1' intervals start around 670W and fall as low as 570W, when I pack it in. I guess I've had a few good interval sessions where the first or 2nd one were 700W, but in general, I'm around 80% of max or less. Anything more than that in the early intervals, and it will kill the rest of my intervals.

My 1' power is not recoverable in the same ride. It just messes me up.

 06-03-09, 02:04 PM #15 NomadVW  部門ニ/自転車オタク     Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Yuma, AZ Bikes: 2005 Specialized Roubaix Elite, 2005 Specialized FSR XC Comp, 2008 Blue T16, 2009 Blue RC8, Fetish Cycles Road Bike Posts: 3,172 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) MD - 1 minute intervals for me would definitely NOT be in the 180% FTP range. I'd be in the 150% -160% range __________________ Envision, Energize, Enable
06-03-09, 03:50 PM   #16
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 Originally Posted by waterrockets Yeah, when testing around 810-820W, my 1' intervals start around 670W and fall as low as 570W, when I pack it in. I guess I've had a few good interval sessions where the first or 2nd one were 700W, but in general, I'm around 80% of max or less. Anything more than that in the early intervals, and it will kill the rest of my intervals. My 1' power is not recoverable in the same ride. It just messes me up.
I think I go too hard on my 1' interval sessions. I get a few good ones then blow up all over the road for the rest of them.

06-03-09, 04:57 PM   #17
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 Originally Posted by waterrockets Yeah, when testing around 810-820W, my 1' intervals start around 670W and fall as low as 570W, when I pack it in. I guess I've had a few good interval sessions where the first or 2nd one were 700W, but in general, I'm around 80% of max or less. Anything more than that in the early intervals, and it will kill the rest of my intervals. My 1' power is not recoverable in the same ride. It just messes me up.
no contribution regarding power/wats/mumbojumbotillIbuyaPT...I'm just really to read that. I did 1' intervals with a few teammates last week and I on the first one and was really for the remainder. Just couldn't recover and it really made me , till now.

I've got a big race for a teammate this weekend and I've been over it. This will help me sleep.

 06-03-09, 05:28 PM #18 waterrockets  Making a kilometer blurry     Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin (near TX) Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection Posts: 26,130 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) Yeah, the AWC burn rate is quick... you can kill all of it in about 2:30, but it doesn't come back that fast.
06-03-09, 09:00 PM   #19
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 Originally Posted by procrit I think I go too hard on my 1' interval sessions. I get a few good ones then blow up all over the road for the rest of them.
In my book that means you're doing them correctly. It's not like you can go out and do two dozen of them. I think my max is around 6. The longer you rest in between, the better, but after a while I feel like I'm just not doing any good.

What you can do is about 4-5 1' drills and then a 20 minute cruise interval for a good mixed workout.

 06-03-09, 10:09 PM #20 waterrockets  Making a kilometer blurry     Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin (near TX) Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection Posts: 26,130 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) You just have to be careful that you don't go so hard on the first two that you can't get into a respectable AWC zone on the last four. As long as you're clearly out of the VO2Max kind of range, you'll be generating the stresses you're looking for. I'm perfectly happy just losing 15-20W per interval. No implosion needed.
06-04-09, 10:41 AM   #21
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 Originally Posted by waterrockets You just have to be careful that you don't go so hard on the first two that you can't get into a respectable AWC zone on the last four.
Ya, but it feels so good on that first one when you're fresh, warmed up and can really crush it.

 06-04-09, 10:48 AM #22 waterrockets  Making a kilometer blurry     Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin (near TX) Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection Posts: 26,130 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) I wish it felt good! I think an all-out 1-minute effort is the most painful thing I've done on the bike, other than the 3-minute all-out insanity test. There's just something about burning through 50 calories in a minute that just doesn't seem natural.
06-04-09, 12:12 PM   #23
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 Originally Posted by waterrockets There's just something about burning through 50 calories in a minute that just doesn't seem natural.

Why? I can eat 300 calories in a minute if I rush it.

06-04-09, 09:35 PM   #24
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 Originally Posted by waterrockets I wish it felt good! I think an all-out 1-minute effort is the most painful thing I've done on the bike, other than the 3-minute all-out insanity test. There's just something about burning through 50 calories in a minute that just doesn't seem natural.
Well, a couple points here.

1. You burn more calories in your 1 minute that I burn in mine....by a massive freakin' margin.
2. I was really talking more about the first 30 seconds of the first effort.
3. I didn't mean good in a "sitting in the hot-tub with the bubbles on your back" sort of way...it was more of good in a "hitting yourself in the head with a hammer because it feels great when you quit" kinda way.

I get where you're coming from, though.

 06-04-09, 09:37 PM #25 waterrockets  Making a kilometer blurry     Join Date: May 2006 Location: Austin (near TX) Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection Posts: 26,130 Mentioned: 2 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 2 Post(s) ( to the HD bar too, even though it's not a Dove bar)