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Training Status??? (II)

Old 09-09-10, 02:30 PM
  #10651  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
Yeah, I forget about those cat 2 only races, since there are so few of them. I'd love to get my ass handed to me at San Dimas in the 2s, but other than that I think I would just be miserable if I tried to do any P/1/2 races. Cat 3 for me for quite some time, unless I am blindsided by some huge fitness jump that comes out of nowhere.
Even with P/1/2 races there's a huge range in speed from race to race, you just need to be more judicious at first unless you like dangling at the back. When I first upgraded I got dropped instantly at Murrietta and Sea Otter but I could hang on just fine at CBR, San Luis Rey, Imperial, and San Diego Omnium.
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Old 09-09-10, 02:31 PM
  #10652  
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Originally Posted by trigger View Post
Ok - this is a dumb question, but I want to make sure I've got this right; it's my first attempt at a structured training plan.

During base, do I count cross-training and weight room hours toward my weekly training hours, or should I only count those on the bike? I ask simply as Friel's suggested hourly breakdown seems to suggest that it's only on-bike hours, though I suspect that yes, I'd count my other sessions as well.

Does anyone have a link to a base period workout schedule they'd be willing to share?

Thanks
Your instinct is correct.

Apparently you think that logging hours where you're fatiguing your system and legs should count as training. That logic doesn't sound too outlandish. Just don't forget to ride lots during the time period.

Before people suggest a schedule, how long have you been riding and what are your goals?
Point is, if you've been riding for a short amount of time, you should really just go out and try to get a few long rides in over base. Then when you start getting closer to racing, add in intensity. If you've been riding for a while, then 1-2 long rides a week is plenty, and that's going to have bunches of SST thrown in.
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Old 09-09-10, 02:45 PM
  #10653  
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Thanks! Yeah, it made sense to me but I wanted to check. Getting that wrong would have really been a "D'oh!" moment.

As to the rest, I've just come off my first season of racing after a season of rando riding, and I've got a lot of work to do to be where I'd like next season. A structured plan seems to be the best way to address my weaknesses, but putting one together is also one of those weaknesses! Lol. I'm hoping with Friel and the advice on this site I'll get it figured out as I go. I've done up a 52 week plan, but other than setting hours I'm not going to worry about workouts until I get to each period. For base I'm looking at well, base, SST as you mentioned and trying to get more strength in my legs with weights. Also I plan to run and swim a bit so as not to burn out on the trainer.

Thoughts, advice, links all warmly welcomed.

Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Your instinct is correct.

Apparently you think that logging hours where you're fatiguing your system and legs should count as training. That logic doesn't sound too outlandish. Just don't forget to ride lots during the time period.

Before people suggest a schedule, how long have you been riding and what are your goals?
Point is, if you've been riding for a short amount of time, you should really just go out and try to get a few long rides in over base. Then when you start getting closer to racing, add in intensity. If you've been riding for a while, then 1-2 long rides a week is plenty, and that's going to have bunches of SST thrown in.
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Old 09-09-10, 02:56 PM
  #10654  
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Originally Posted by esammuli View Post
Even with P/1/2 races there's a huge range in speed from race to race, you just need to be more judicious at first unless you like dangling at the back. When I first upgraded I got dropped instantly at Murrietta and Sea Otter but I could hang on just fine at CBR, San Luis Rey, Imperial, and San Diego Omnium.
Since I have 0 points, I don't think it will be an issue for me to worry about anytime soon

Although I would have had some points from San Ardo had I not crashed
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Old 09-09-10, 03:08 PM
  #10655  
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This week's dumb idea: do a 600k (~380mi) mountain brevet this weekend, even though the longest ride I've done this year was about ~100 miles.. (I did some 600's last year tho)

Haven't ridden any passes this year and I can do three in this one ride! Maybe, maybe... I love bad ideas, I think that's what essentially started randonnuering.

Plus the randos will love my carbon bike and race kit...
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Old 09-09-10, 03:21 PM
  #10656  
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Originally Posted by esammuli View Post
I'd say that's correct for P/1/2 races. Cat 2 only races are a much more natural progression.
+1

Though most successful 3's can hang just fine in a p/1/2, they just won't be contesting (at least in a fast one, with plenty of p's and 1's)
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Old 09-09-10, 03:24 PM
  #10657  
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Originally Posted by esammuli View Post
I could hang on just fine at CBR, San Luis Rey, Imperial, and San Diego Omnium.
That's been my experience in the 35+ 1,2,3. You get guys on the front driving like hell <Amgen>, but I do seem to be able to hang on. I don't see any podiums coming along in this field, but done properly, I think I could be top 20 or so. The real kicker is that the Cat 3 race starts about 10 seconds after this one is finished. So far I have just sat up in the sprints to make the start of the next race a little more sane. It makes for a hell of a workout, though.
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Old 09-09-10, 05:42 PM
  #10658  
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45 minutes or so on the MTB. Ran out of time for a second lap, plus my lower back was bothering me more than normal. I think I might soften up the rear suspension some, that place has about 7000 roots, it's ridiculous.
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Old 09-09-10, 05:45 PM
  #10659  
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Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
+1

Though most successful 3's can hang just fine in a p/1/2, they just won't be contesting (at least in a fast one, with plenty of p's and 1's)
For this 3, hang just fine means scratching and clawing to hold on to the end of the train.
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Old 09-09-10, 05:46 PM
  #10660  
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75' of easy to medium riding today.

I'm not sure why, but, I find that I tend to ride better when racing with 1s and 2s than when racing with only 3s.
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Old 09-09-10, 05:49 PM
  #10661  
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Originally Posted by bostongarden View Post
75' of easy to medium riding today.

I'm not sure why, but, I find that I tend to ride better when racing with 1s and 2s than when racing with only 3s.
Maybe because it's smoother and people don't do as much stupid s**t?
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Old 09-09-10, 05:57 PM
  #10662  
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Originally Posted by esammuli View Post
Maybe because it's smoother and people don't do as much stupid s**t?
That immediately strikes me as plausible!! And -- maybe this is part or all of smoothness -- there is much less slow down and then speed up for me. It is all fast. Perhaps while the 1s and 2s are slowing for a corner, I'm not; I'm still pedaling away to keep up Indeed, I can enter corners and turns with greater confidence. Also, after riding against a couple of Amgen guys last month, I can say that I don't frequently encounter those types (as far as I know).
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Old 09-09-10, 06:01 PM
  #10663  
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Originally Posted by trigger View Post
I've done up a 52 week plan,
Way too long.
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Old 09-09-10, 06:19 PM
  #10664  
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Training status: Home from work, sick as a dog. Last weekend was my a-priority racing, so at least the timing isn't bad -- I wouldn't have been doing much anyway.
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Old 09-09-10, 06:56 PM
  #10665  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
Way too long.
For an annual training plan?
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Old 09-09-10, 07:20 PM
  #10666  
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Did my first attempt at hill repeats tonight as I didn't have much time to ride. This is base work for next year. The hill is about a 6%-8% grade for about a mile and it took me about 7 minutes to scale keeping my HR zone at around 4.6-4.8. Is this a good hill for this kind of work, and is my HR target appropriate? I have no PM. Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-09-10, 07:24 PM
  #10667  
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sounds like a good VO2max hill.

those are "make or break" hills in most northeastern road races.

for me, first day on the cross bike this year. I liked it.
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Old 09-09-10, 07:36 PM
  #10668  
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
sounds like a good VO2max hill.

those are "make or break" hills in most northeastern road races.
Forgive me, I'm stupid. Does that mean that I should flog this hill harder, into zone 5?
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Old 09-09-10, 07:47 PM
  #10669  
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I don't know how your zones correlate to Coggan levels (which I use).

VO2Max efforts tend to get me really close to Max HR though. In a race (with adrenaline) I might see 190+ on a real hard VO2max hill effort. Lactate threshold is 178 or so.

I'm not doing much of VO2max (except for cross) until next season. I'd rather work on longer intervals at threshold.
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Old 09-09-10, 08:32 PM
  #10670  
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Based on how I felt I think you're right. I was breathing as hard as I could, bordering on oxygen debt a few times, but my HR was not maxed out and I had a little left in the legs to go faster if I wanted to. I really don't know what my max HR is although my Garmin thinks it's about 10bpm higher than my peak this year.

I have a lot of reading to do. This stuff is Greek to me.

Thanks, Grumpy.
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Old 09-09-10, 08:55 PM
  #10671  
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Could probably use the hill for ZCIs.
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Old 09-09-10, 09:00 PM
  #10672  
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Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
Way too long.
If there's a better way to do it, please let me know, because going with Friel's book (which seems to be the general wisdom) sets it up like this.
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Old 09-09-10, 09:13 PM
  #10673  
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It's just not worth the effort to plan that far ahead. Setting goals that far ahead is great, but pinning down 5' intervals for the last Tuesday in August of 2011 is not likely to remain relevant.
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Old 09-09-10, 09:20 PM
  #10674  
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
It's just not worth the effort to plan that far ahead. Setting goals that far ahead is great, but pinning down 5' intervals for the last Tuesday in August of 2011 is not likely to remain relevant.
Ah, well it's not that precise yet. I've got the periods (base, build, A races etc) mapped out, but not the workouts. I'm only dealing with those when I get to each period generally, and more likely week to week as I progress. But I do like having the year broken up into sections ... it helps get me focused on what to do when. Remember y'all, this is my very first structured plan. I imagine after a year or two I won't have to schedule periods like this, I'll just know when base gives way to build etc.
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Old 09-09-10, 10:11 PM
  #10675  
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dide 2.5 hour tempo after work, as planned.

man i tried to get back into winter high cadence easy gear mode, just to gear up for base and try to minimize muscle stress and it totally kills me. i was cruisin along on a route i routinely ride on hard training rides, where i spend a lot of time at or off the front, 25+mpg at 80-85rpms, and doing them today trying to stay stedy over 90 and i was really suffering at much lower speeds (i know, speeds not a perfect indicator, but i know these roads well enough to know what the variables are and i was definitely working harder for less power).

AND i get home to sorer tendons and muscles anyway.

guess high cadence isnt for me.
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