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Training Status??? (II)

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Training Status??? (II)

Old 12-02-10, 09:30 AM
  #12876  
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Originally Posted by GirlAnachronism View Post
Fun skills session this morning, even though it was a little chilly. I am now a pro at the pick up the bottle drill, and we practiced flinging each other around Madison-style. Gym this afternoon.
pick up the bottle drill? can you explain?

I'm a newb haven't heard of that drill

do you mean practicing dropping a bottle and grabbing a new one in the feed zone?
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Old 12-02-10, 09:35 AM
  #12877  
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Originally Posted by miwoodar View Post
Penguin commeth.
Dude I am scared to get up from my desk so I might just sit here all morning and pee into a cup
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Old 12-02-10, 09:35 AM
  #12878  
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Maybe calling it a "drill" is being generous. You put a bottle on the ground, ride by, and pick it up, then set it back down.
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Old 12-02-10, 09:37 AM
  #12879  
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Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
pick up the bottle drill? can you explain?

I'm a newb haven't heard of that drill

do you mean practicing dropping a bottle and grabbing a new one in the feed zone?
That is exactly what GA is talking about - great skill to have if you don't have the balls (sorry GA) to take one out of someone else's hands in the feedzone
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Old 12-02-10, 09:42 AM
  #12880  
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I'm much better at the feedzone bottle-grab than the ground one! I think it's intended to improve handling skills and comfort being in weird positions on the bike, not necessarily as a practical skill you'd use while racing. Same for the Madison throws, leaning against trees, and sticking your hand under another rider's knee and grabbing their top tube to prevent them from pedaling.
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Old 12-02-10, 12:13 PM
  #12881  
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Originally Posted by GirlAnachronism View Post
I'm much better at the feedzone bottle-grab than the ground one! I think it's intended to improve handling skills and comfort being in weird positions on the bike, not necessarily as a practical skill you'd use while racing. Same for the Madison throws, leaning against trees, and sticking your hand under another rider's knee and grabbing their top tube to prevent them from pedaling.
Did you bump tires with a rider in front of you? This is by far the most important drill to practice.
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Old 12-02-10, 01:16 PM
  #12882  
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cmh, long time no time.
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Old 12-02-10, 01:35 PM
  #12883  
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Originally Posted by cmh View Post
Did you bump tires with a rider in front of you? This is by far the most important drill to practice.
Yep, I've done that. Not my favorite thing at all, but I survived. We also do a lot of bumping/leaning/pushing each other around.
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Old 12-02-10, 01:47 PM
  #12884  
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Originally Posted by Smallguy View Post
pick up the bottle drill? can you explain?

I'm a newb haven't heard of that drill

do you mean practicing dropping a bottle and grabbing a new one in the feed zone?
Originally Posted by GirlAnachronism View Post
Maybe calling it a "drill" is being generous. You put a bottle on the ground, ride by, and pick it up, then set it back down.
Originally Posted by rkwaki View Post
That is exactly what GA is talking about - great skill to have if you don't have the balls (sorry GA) to take one out of someone else's hands in the feedzone
not exactly
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Old 12-02-10, 03:16 PM
  #12885  
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Originally Posted by GirlAnachronism View Post
Yep, I've done that. Not my favorite thing at all, but I survived. We also do a lot of bumping/leaning/pushing each other around.
We all (or at least almost all of us) could use more of this. Thanks for this reminder to get the team together for some drills.
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Old 12-02-10, 03:19 PM
  #12886  
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Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
cmh, long time no time.
Hi MD. I got caught up in life (life being a divorce, lay off, family member with cancer, moving twice.) and ended up taking a year off of racing. I've been back on the bike for a few weeks and I'm hoping to come out of retirement to race in the spring.
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Old 12-02-10, 03:20 PM
  #12887  
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Originally Posted by cmh View Post
We all (or at least almost all of us) could use more of this. Thanks for this reminder to get the team together for some drills.
Yeah, I kind of hate it, but I'm glad my coach is making us do it. We've been getting together for an hour or two every week throughout the fall to work on this stuff.
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Old 12-02-10, 03:23 PM
  #12888  
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Welcome back, cmh. Sorry about the rough year, but you're among friends here.
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Old 12-02-10, 03:48 PM
  #12889  
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More of a racing question but this seems like the most appropriate active thread:

Has anyone here ever done a real analysis on what effort it would take you to close a gap or help a break hold off a charging field? Something like:
If break is traveling @ x mph and has n seconds on the field I will need to travel @ y mph for m seconds to catch them.

Or do you just wing it? Or already know by experience? etc...?
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Old 12-02-10, 03:53 PM
  #12890  
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Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
More of a racing question but this seems like the most appropriate active thread:

Has anyone here ever done a real analysis on what effort it would take you to close a gap or help a break hold off a charging field? Something like:
If break is traveling @ x mph and has n seconds on the field I will need to travel @ y mph for m seconds to catch them.

Or do you just wing it? Or already know by experience? etc...?

Dude I wing it...
In a race this year I jumped a gap to the two leaders - we estimated that they were about 20-25 seconds ahead (it was a crit) - I bridged it in about 3 miles - probably averaged 33+ mph to catch them - we then put another 10 seconds (average 27-29 mph) into the field before that fateful finish
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Old 12-02-10, 03:54 PM
  #12891  
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3x20's at lunch. Pushed it pretty hard on #1 and reasonably hard on #2, cracked pretty hard on #3.

About to do a 1 hour recovery spin on the way home.
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Old 12-02-10, 03:56 PM
  #12892  
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Day off yesterday and 68' tonight. Feels good to have an easy/refresh week!!

My delightful better half came up with the idea of me heading down to Austin in January to train and ride with friends. Maybe time it for CCove, hee hee -- oh, I'd get crushemundoed there.
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Old 12-02-10, 05:25 PM
  #12893  
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Sick

Sick. At home. Getting fat. Boo. Looks like I'll be getting better just in time for several days of rain.
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Old 12-02-10, 10:06 PM
  #12894  
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Good commute home in light rain - the same 17-mile route can net me anywhere from 45-65 TSS, depending on how I take it.

At about 60 CTL & -20 TSB, digging in for Base 2.
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Old 12-02-10, 10:16 PM
  #12895  
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Went to the gym and did 45min on the treadmill w/ 6x5min at ~7:30 pace (8.0mph 1%), I'm not hitting TT heart rates so there not really "zecanons." I also pissed around on the elliptical, did some chest presses, incline sit-ups with twist, and of all things burpies.
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Old 12-02-10, 11:04 PM
  #12896  
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trainer workout with some teammates. 1 hr, 55 TSS.
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Old 12-02-10, 11:07 PM
  #12897  
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2 hr ride. first one that long in almost a month. fell asleep on the couch for an hour afterward, but it feels good to be riding again
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Old 12-03-10, 12:02 AM
  #12898  
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13.2 hours in the last 7 days...meh..
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14 days...
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Old 12-03-10, 12:21 AM
  #12899  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Welcome back, cmh. Sorry about the rough year, but you're among friends here.
Thanks caloso. Its good to be back.
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Old 12-03-10, 06:19 AM
  #12900  
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Originally Posted by agoodale View Post
More of a racing question but this seems like the most appropriate active thread:

Has anyone here ever done a real analysis on what effort it would take you to close a gap or help a break hold off a charging field? Something like:
If break is traveling @ x mph and has n seconds on the field I will need to travel @ y mph for m seconds to catch them.

Or do you just wing it? Or already know by experience? etc...?
I rarely look at this thread since I don't train very seriously. But I happened to peek here after gsteinb said something about posting.

Anyway you can calculate this pretty easily.

Group A (the lead group) goes x mph which is x/5280/3600 feet per second.

Group B (you/chase) goes tbd mph which is tbd/5280/3600 feet per second.

Give Group A whatever foot head start ("y feet") or if you want to give them seconds, do "y seconds * x/5280/3600 feet per second".

Put in some real numbers. 28 mph break. Chase speed 32-35 mph.

It's amazing how fast one can close a gap but it's also depressing how long one must chase if the gap grows significantly. To me "significantly" means about 15-20 seconds because I don't have faith in the ability to hold a high speed for more than 30-40 seconds. With a couple teammates killing themselves it's possible to get maybe 60-90 seconds of effort at high speed (at a Cat 3 level it'd be 35 mph or so, maybe closer to 40 with favorable winds, and each rider will explode after 30-40 seconds or so) but I've only had that done maybe 3 or 4 times in my life (other than SUNY Purchase Tues Night Sprints).

If there's a break within, say, 15 seconds of the field, at one lap to go, in a crit, and the average speed of the break is about 27-28 mph, a normal 35 mph leadout train will crush pretty much anything out there, and that's without the sprint (and coming off of a leadout, a good sprinter should be able to accelerate at least 5 mph above the leadout speed if not 7-9 mph or more). It's when the break is going 30-32 mph that it gets really difficult.

Knowing how fast the break is going is important if they're out of sight.

My now-former teammate, the one who lives in SoCal now, did a HUGE leadout for me. We thought it'd be more like practice since the break of 15 or 20 riders was way up the road and included Cat 1s, 2s, and maybe a pro or two, and we were some hack 3s almost a minute down. But the boys lined it up for me, one other sprinter (name escapes me, Toga Cat 1 rider, shorter but really powerful) put one guy in the train, and we bridged a huge gap in about 1.5 miles:
https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...-leadouts.html

Of course if you just go really, really hard, that's about all you can do. 33 mph for 3 miles? That's way beyond what I can do. I can't do any solo effort like that for more than about 40 seconds, at least not without totally exploding myself. 30 mph in a 2-4 man group, with me taking a pull, means I last maybe 2 minutes. If I don't take a pull I can go for a while, 5-10 minutes of others going flat out.

cdr
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