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Training Status??? (II)

Old 08-17-11, 05:54 PM
  #18301  
pjcampbell
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The next level... interesting but not exactly a surprise. If you were solely interested in FTP would you follow this program basically to a T? Sounds like a Long hard ride 1x a week, plus LOTS of FTP work 3x a week...

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Old 08-17-11, 06:18 PM
  #18302  
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Originally Posted by pjcampbell View Post
The next level... interesting but not exactly a surprise. If you were solely interested in FTP would you follow this program basically to a T? Sounds like a Long hard ride 1x a week, plus LOTS of FTP work 3x a week...
3 FTP during the week seem quite excessive given the 5-6hr long ride on the weekend, and i definitely don't think i have the base necessary to start doing it at the present moment. Whenever my CTL gets above 90, i'll consider it.
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Old 08-17-11, 07:06 PM
  #18303  
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Speaking of those kind of numbers...

Did a group ride today, went up some longish climbs. Felt a lot better than last Wed when the guy with sneakers waited for me. This week a ride leader asked if I was blood doping. No, but the regular Ardennes rim wheels are much better at my speeds than the Jet 6/9 combo (17 mph). Hit 47 mph on a descent so that was fun (I figured it was 40-42 mph).

Hm, just checked. The week before I hit 48.2 mph, same descent. I was chasing though, this week I eased so I wouldn't get too far ahead.

Avg watts for ride 137, best 10 min was 217 (higher than yesterday's race), best 20 min was 195w (for me that's extreme suffering). Weight was 78 kg this morning. Last week I averaged just a tad higher, 144w, but I was shelled everywhere, last up most climbs.
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Old 08-17-11, 07:46 PM
  #18304  
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Today was the yearly departmental retreat held about as far from my house as possible. Commuting involved 25 miles of riding my commuter bike wearing a messenger bag wearing "work" clothes. I took this as a Zone 2 day.
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Old 08-17-11, 08:22 PM
  #18305  
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75 miles of commuting with the club hammerfest in between. After yesterday's race, I'm beat.
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Old 08-17-11, 08:31 PM
  #18306  
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Which is a huge pet peeve of mine... ("Omg I did a IF=1.2 ride for 3 hours!!")

That and listing wattage in terms of pure watts and not w/kg.. kills me every time.
Guilty.


FIFM:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Well, that turned out better than I thought. 5" power ended up at 18.9W/kg. The best I've tested was 20.1W/kg in 2008. Still a ~6% drop, but I was doing a lot more sprints back then.

Overall encouraging. I am starting to get some focus back on 5" and 1' efforts because it's too hot to train threshold.
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Old 08-17-11, 08:43 PM
  #18307  
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fatty.
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Old 08-17-11, 09:01 PM
  #18308  
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Finally, the power is coming back!! Last week, I did a lot of fitting and this and that on my trainer, and, I switched back to my old shoes recently (I kept the cleats on them). Voila, I am reborn. It feels right; certain key muscles are getting engaged more effectively; command is coming back; all aspects are way up (e.g., power, endurance, recovery, speed).

Did my first race test at Ninigret tonight in their A race. I only lasted 44 minutes. But, I like the way things felt. There were some really good riders there (e.g., a clifbar/pactimo rider was strong) and I was mixing it up pretty good for the first 30 minutes. Ap was 203; np was 269, and mph was 26.1 (on a course with 6/7 turns and a fair bit of wind). The VI (i.e., np/ap) is crazy at 1.325. On the positive side, this suggests I could take a fair bit of on&off/surges -- well, for 44 minutes. On the other hand, it suggests opportunity to ride with a "smoother," more efficient, effort.

I'll get the cleats set right on the new shoes at the end of the season. Between now and then, I have to get some muscles, that have been unintentionally ignored, up to speed. Meow!
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Old 08-17-11, 09:02 PM
  #18309  
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I will say that IF does give a relative intensity for someone with low W/KG numbers vs someone with high W/KG. Riding at .9 is at .9. I also think it's skewed as I can't right now hit my FTP for a hour but I can get in the high .9s based on NP on intense rides. Rolling terrain does that I guess seeing as my VI is generally around 1.15 or higher.
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Old 08-17-11, 09:14 PM
  #18310  
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Originally Posted by Ygduf View Post
Yes. Same.

How many crits have been described as an hour at 1.2IF?! Like really, even in a pack when you're not pedaling hard all the time you're exceeding you sustained FTP?

Anyway, I just gave up and stopped trying to argue. To each their own.
Hold up. It is possible to hit an IF of 1.2 in a crit that has a lot of surges. IF is based on NP.

A recent personal example...I did three 60 second jumps in 20 minutes. AP was ~200 (IIRC). NP was through the roof though. IF came back at 1.4! If I could hold that wattage as an AP I would be able to escape any field I've ever ridden in.
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Old 08-17-11, 09:15 PM
  #18311  
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Originally Posted by wanders View Post
fatty.
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Old 08-17-11, 09:19 PM
  #18312  
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Originally Posted by miwoodar View Post
Hold up. It is possible to hit an IF of 1.2 in a crit that has a lot of surges. IF is based on NP.

A recent personal example...I did three 60 second jumps in 20 minutes. AP was ~200 (IIRC). NP was through the roof though. IF came back at 1.4! If I could hold that wattage as an AP I would be able to escape any field I've ever ridden in.
I'm with you there. A steady state ride with a VI of 1.0 at FTP is hard as hell. Getting close to or exceeding 1.0 with a high VI isn't that hard. Hill repeats, intervals, racing, etc. I still think reporting VI and TSS is less of a pissing match than throwing out the ewang numbers.
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Old 08-17-11, 09:29 PM
  #18313  
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And that's why the TSS metric was invented in the first place...so people of varying degrees of ability can measure their efforts in a common, unified system. FOP, MOP, and BOP all end up with a shared metric that describes training load that is not based on weenis size.

My weenis is huge BTW. It's gotta be at least 4 inches
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Old 08-18-11, 05:34 AM
  #18314  
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And legs feel decent this morning.
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Old 08-18-11, 05:57 AM
  #18315  
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Been working on standing starts this week...

Provincial TT this weekend...Wifey is going for another title

I'll be trying to survive...Just like last year my back has chosen this week to pop, but learning from experience has allowed me slowly fix it up...Hopefully all will be well for Sunday...
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Old 08-18-11, 06:35 AM
  #18316  
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Originally Posted by bostongarden View Post
And legs feel decent this morning.
Luuucckkyyyyyy! ^^^

Monday I pulled my groin while doing some moving and slipping down a stair. Tuesday I did a small 7 mile ride just to see how my groin felt afterwards and if i'd be able to make the Wednesday group ride. I didn't want to over do it on Tuesday, and woke up Wednesday feeling fine. Wednesday some friends got together and we were off. There plan was an easy recovery type ride, for only about 22 miles. We ended up averaging 21mph, rode 44 miles, and the first 23 miles where into an 18mph headwind. Add 'rolling hills' to that mix and my groin was stretched and pushed to its max yesterday. This morning walking does not feel good.

I should have opted out of the ride yesterday and just did my own slow paced ride. This small injury could get me off my saddle until maybe late this weekend :-/ Lucky, no races are happening.


.Chris
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Old 08-18-11, 07:06 AM
  #18317  
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Feeling fresh is awesome. Like, really, really awesome.
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Old 08-18-11, 07:28 AM
  #18318  
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Back to the next level...Is it possible to do, for example 3x30s at threshold provided you have 5-10 minutes rest between them (it hurts just to think about it)? I was regularly doing pacing intervals starting at just under ftp and ending 5-10 watts over ftp with my last interval. The pacing workout would take ~1.5 hours so I'd get an hour of ftp+some work in, just distributed over a longer period of time.
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Old 08-18-11, 07:37 AM
  #18319  
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I gathered from the article that 3x30 was the workout you 're ultimately supposed to work towards.
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Old 08-18-11, 07:55 AM
  #18320  
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Yes, that is why I'm asking. Has anybody here done 3x30s at threshold?
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Old 08-18-11, 08:17 AM
  #18321  
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90', 2x20 @ 93%.
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Old 08-18-11, 08:56 AM
  #18322  
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Originally Posted by Apus^2 View Post
Yes, that is why I'm asking. Has anybody here done 3x30s at threshold?
Go search the wattage group. I found two guys who strictly tried to do 'The Next Level' training and hit the wall hard by the time they got to the 3x30 intervals.

In answer to whoever asked "is it possible to do 90 minutes at FTP". They are referring to something like a 3x30 or other similar type interval with rest periods interspersed. FTP is not possible at 90 minutes non-stop by definition.
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Old 08-18-11, 09:02 AM
  #18323  
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Originally Posted by Apus^2 View Post
Yes, that is why I'm asking. Has anybody here done 3x30s at threshold?
No and I don't think I could. FWIW, I've never been able to ride at my predicted FTP for an hour either. I've come within ~25 watts a few times on hard group rides. Solo efforts have been further from the number though. Perhaps if I joined a TT series? However, 20 minute tests are enough for me to confirm my improvements so I generally don't concern myself with hour long efforts.

Last night...4 miles of slooooow MTB with the kiddos. The older one, five, took his training wheels off last weekend and all he wants to do is ride. The younger one is on a kick bike and just wants to do whatever the older one is doing.
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Old 08-18-11, 09:09 AM
  #18324  
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I've done 2x30's followed up by between 10-20 minutes before cracking. But the point is when you hit that brick wall, just keep trying to do some sst to finish the 30 out and leave yourself saying "nunca mas".
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Old 08-18-11, 09:11 AM
  #18325  
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Finally getting a little bit of rest. I was looking forward to racing Tuesday since the legs are good right now, but it was canceled since the course was under a few feet of water, so I did a nice three-hour Z2/Z3 ride. Hour easy yesterday with some high-cadence stuff, off the bike today.
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