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Training Status??? (II)

Old 08-18-11, 09:17 AM
  #18326  
echappist
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Originally Posted by Doggus View Post
Go search the wattage group. I found two guys who strictly tried to do 'The Next Level' training and hit the wall hard by the time they got to the 3x30 intervals.

In answer to whoever asked "is it possible to do 90 minutes at FTP". They are referring to something like a 3x30 or other similar type interval with rest periods interspersed. FTP is not possible at 90 minutes non-stop by definition.
it really does seem that the Next Level training requires a ton of base to be pulled off. It just seem to shove too much intensity work while neglecting the endurance miles.
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Old 08-18-11, 09:23 AM
  #18327  
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Originally Posted by Doggus View Post
FTP is not possible at 90 minutes non-stop by definition.
True.

I just went pack and looked at the article. It says: "need to increase the amount of time spent at or near FTP to 60-90 minutes." 60 minutes-doable but not fun, but to go beyond that you'd need to start dropping to 98%, 96%.

miwoodar--I've ridden for an hour at FTP before on my rollers. It was usually followed by a test a day or two and a subsequent bump of the ftp...
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Old 08-18-11, 09:32 AM
  #18328  
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post
it really does seem that the next level training requires a ton of base to be pulled off. It just seem to shove too much intensity work while neglecting the endurance miles.
ok.
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Old 08-18-11, 09:59 AM
  #18329  
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finally able to do SST rides without having my HR jacked. Doing it in the morning might have helped, as did riding in the rain. But doing 250W at what used to be my high tempo HR feels good.

Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
ok.
c'mon, you can't expect someone carrying a CTL of 75 to respond similarly to someone carrying a CTL of 100+ (which i surmise is the case for you) when you do nothing but 2-3 Z4 rides with one long endurance ride on the weekend.
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Old 08-18-11, 10:34 AM
  #18330  
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...or somebody like me with a CTL around 45? Of course, it's not possible to do such a program at 45 CTL, because it would rise anyway, so it's self-adapting at some point. The ramp rate would fark me up though.
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Old 08-18-11, 10:36 AM
  #18331  
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When I had my strongest season, during base I was doing a 4-5 hour ride on the weekend, then 2x20's and Pacing workouts during the week. I don't think I ever had more than an 8 hour week with (I wish I had WKO installed on this computer so I could look at the numbers) a CTL rarely above 70. People are different and respond to training stress differently. The single thing that helped the most was the 4-5 hour ride. That is currently my limiter--I'm lucky if I can get out for 2.5 hours right now. Next year, when spawn 2 is 1+ year old, I'm going to try to save up vacation time so I can take a day off each week in the winter for a couple 5+ hour rides a month. I have no issue doing lots of ftp. That is what I gravitate to (I started back into training with 2x20s at 90-95%).
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Old 08-18-11, 10:38 AM
  #18332  
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Doubt that these CTL's can manage the load indicates a lack of digging in the wattage forum.

(edit to add - this response was incomplete - I think the point is to crack at some point, right? I was able to find examples of people starting with surprisingly low CTL's who ended up with big improvements.)

Last edited by miwoodar; 08-18-11 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 08-18-11, 11:29 AM
  #18333  
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
...or somebody like me with a CTL around 45? Of course, it's not possible to do such a program at 45 CTL, because it would rise anyway, so it's self-adapting at some point. The ramp rate would fark me up though.
Thank you.

Remember, rest is a big part of it. The ramp rate was high, ~5-6 per week, but when I started on November 1 my CTL was around 60, and when I finished at the end of January it was around 100. There were days where my stress balance was -30 -> -40, but the rest kept me mostly even keel except that one huge block where I just did ungodly hours.

I also sucked pretty badly my first two races of the season, but then was much better.
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Old 08-18-11, 02:18 PM
  #18334  
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An hour of endurance this morning. Nice sweet morning ride it was after racing last night. Enjoyed it immensely.
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Old 08-18-11, 06:36 PM
  #18335  
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I felt like keeping it locked into the 53-13 and staying seated, so I did for 1:40. I need to get those sitting-down crit muscles stronger, so I was pushing as hard as I could up every climb and in the final sprint, with recovery/rest pace after every climb and keeping it at medium-effort everywhere else. 514ap for last 30" sprint, given the nature of the ride, staying in the 53-13 and seated for it, and having raced last night, isn't too shabby for moi.
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Old 08-18-11, 06:42 PM
  #18336  
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I don't know if it's the Zipps, resting, or general life frustration, but I am owning house right now.

2.4mi @ 5.2% big ringed. The final 1.5mi avg'd 7% and I did it in my 53-21 standing, ~14mph.

Interval 2 was
.5km @ 12% big ringed (53-19, ~17mph)

The rest of my 1.5hr ride was z1/2.
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Old 08-18-11, 06:46 PM
  #18337  
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cx skills day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't crash, so i would say it was a good day.
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Old 08-18-11, 06:50 PM
  #18338  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
I don't know if it's the Zipps, resting, or general life frustration, but I am owning house right now.

2.4mi @ 5.2% big ringed. The final 1.5mi avg'd 7% and I did it in my 53-21 standing, ~14mph.

Interval 2 was
.5km @ 12% big ringed (53-19, ~17mph)

The rest of my 1.5hr ride was z1/2.
It's got to be the Zipps!

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Old 08-18-11, 08:08 PM
  #18339  
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TNR. The big guns showed up. I was destroyed at about 1:30 into the ride. Got to chat with Saul Raisin. He said he could climb sub threshold at 450 watts and 148 lbs. Really nice guy.
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Old 08-18-11, 08:28 PM
  #18340  
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Originally Posted by jwible View Post
TNR. The big guns showed up. I was destroyed at about 1:30 into the ride. Got to chat with Saul Raisin. He said he could climb subthreshold at 450 watts and 148 lbs. Really nice guy.
you sure about that number? That's 6.6w/kg, and no one does that at subthreshold
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Old 08-18-11, 08:34 PM
  #18341  
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blub blub blub
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Old 08-18-11, 08:36 PM
  #18342  
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That's what he said. He's a bit of a genetic freak. He has a major spine curvature that developed when he was about 10. His lungs and heart very large as a result. He told Jens Voigt it was his third lung.

http://www.saulraisin.com/sitemain/i...=320&Itemid=83

He's the perfect cyclist genetically speaking.


Last edited by jwible; 08-18-11 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 08-18-11, 08:58 PM
  #18343  
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fatty.
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Old 08-18-11, 09:17 PM
  #18344  
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Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
fatty.
do you also like to address yourself in the third person?
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Old 08-19-11, 07:01 AM
  #18345  
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2x20s @ 90% tonight. Had the heart rate up at 180 at the end of the last one. I am beginning to remember what suffering feels like. And I weighed 190.0 this morning. About to break that barrier.
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Old 08-19-11, 08:43 AM
  #18346  
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Originally Posted by echappist View Post
do you also like to address yourself in the third person?
you guys are getting to know me a little too well...
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Old 08-19-11, 08:48 AM
  #18347  
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Last big gear workout. The gorilla won, I was so cracked I couldn't get on top of any gears to pedal home. 4x10' in the 53x11 (344, 333, 332, 312).
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Old 08-19-11, 09:03 AM
  #18348  
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Originally Posted by kensuf View Post
Last big gear workout. The gorilla won, I was so cracked I couldn't get on top of any gears to pedal home. 4x10' in the 53x11 (344, 333, 332, 312).
wuss

So, I promised a local junior's (14) mom that I would show him the ropes. So after the ride his dad's friend was heading out for a ride, so i joined him because i needed to get back to my house. This guy was scary. He ran every stop sign at full speed, always was swerving and a little cocky. This ride reminded me why i only ride with maybe 4 or 5 guys i know really well.
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Old 08-19-11, 11:32 AM
  #18349  
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any one have any magic formulas for % FTP power for longer (sub 1 hour) climb
e.g. today I did a 22.5 for 107% (not rested).

Have a 44 or 46 minute climb coming up in a few weeks (stand alone.. .Greylock TT). Trying to figure out what to target. I should be well rested for that. Say FTP is 300. I think I could do 310 but 320 (107% ftp) might be a stretch. Used to do a lot of hill climbs but my PT data is all gone.

There's probably a remote chance of placing top 3 in that one. They do it by Age group and my age group is 20-34 (everyone else gets a 5 year AG ha!)

BTW I weigh 160 so for the wpk nazis we're talking between 4.27 and 4.40 watts per kg

Last edited by pjcampbell; 08-19-11 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 08-19-11, 01:53 PM
  #18350  
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Short workout today. Mostly pretty easy with corner sprints. 3 of the 7 sprints ranked as top 10 1 sec power. Wish those top 10s were higher though.

Tomorrow - race

Sunday - off
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