mattm

I keep hearing this phrase thrown around, I assume it means sitting on the back waiting to attack?

My questions is, isn't this a bad idea? Sounds like a great way to get caught in a crash, or at least in the accordian effect..

So, what exactly is tailgunning?

umd

Tailgunning is sitting on the back. Not the best idea in a cat 4 crit... but in a masters or higher cat crit they are fast and smooth enough for there not to be [as much] accordian. I can only say with personal experience from 1-3 crits of course, but tailgunning was pretty smooth and relatively easy.

LorenzoNF

It's also great if you hate fighting for position all the time. But you'd better be good at moving up in the last laps, and getting past gassed riders who let the gaps go.

EventServices

Means the same as "Punching Tickets" which means that you're sitting on the back watching people go off the back never to return.

The hard part is passing all the riders who are dropping off the pace.
The fun part is yelling at them for opening up gaps.

Shayne

I sometimes do it in Masters races if it's my second race of the day. Like UMD said, it's pretty smooth and fast. You can let a little gap go before the corner and then just roll through with speed and come out right on a wheel. You need to be very attentive to gaps and jump them right away. I tail gunned a 70 person masters race earlier this year, 27 mph avg. speed on a 6 corner crit. Ended up 24th, was happy with that as it was the 2nd race of the day for me.

YMCA

Tailgunning is a nice tactic when there are less than 40 starters.
You can see it all unfolding and respond when ready.
Plus it's very relaxing, as there is no fighting for position, or accelerating to wheels.

merlinextraligh

Lake Mary Masters 45 crit this year. I'm suffering at the back in a field of about 75. 2 laps to go I notice I'm right beside Chuck Jerabek at the back of the pack. My initial thought was why is he back here. Shortly thereafter, a JRC teammate drops back, picks him up,and tows him to the front. He sprints for the win.

Me, lacking the confidence to get on the back of that train, continue in my mediocrity,and finish a safe 37th.

Tailgunning seems to work for Jerabek.

carpediemracing 

It's how I race

Well, not all the time. But it's the second easiest place to be in the field, after the first 10 or so riders. In most situations I'll purposely drift back to get to the back. You can rest and relax for seconds on each corner, drink and stuff at your leisure, then move on up when you feel it's prudent.

This applies only for crits. For road races it's nigh impossible to move up so it's better to be up front, and that takes fitness I don't have.

cdr

grolby

Funny, I thought conventional wisdom was that it's easier to move up in a RR. And it seems that way to me. I'm generally pretty leisurely about lining up at the start of RR. I just try to make my way to first 20 or so by the time the strategic part of the course arrives. I remember one race where I dropped my chain on the first big hill. I chased on from offthebackistan, and by the beginning of the final lap (two laps later), I was sitting 3rd wheel. And I had no legs that day. Thanks in part to redlining to get back on, but whatever.

Of course, I'm also pretty leisurely about lining up for a crit. I was a bit panicky about it in my first races last year, but I was late lining up for a crit before too long, ended up doing okay anyway, and stopped worrying about it.

Maybe this is just the 4's, but I've recently discovered that tailgunning also really sucks in a field with <20 starters, especially when two or three get dropped right at the gun*. Of course, you pretty much end up with a single line in a field that small, so trying to get position is even worse. I hate small fields. I have a whole new level of respect for the women who have to deal with that in every single race. That just sucks.

*What's scary is contemplating the fact that there was more than one guy sucking wind even more than I did in that race. Oy vey.

enjoi07

ha great thread. i have spent my first 9 races "tailgunning" and have seen my fair share of crashes but have managed to stay out of them. it really is a fun position to be in if you can manage the gaps and accelerations. i also consider it way safer that in the middle of the pack.

waterrockets 

In crits where I've had a taxing break get caught, tailgunning is a great way to recover. YMCA's right about the <40 or so riders though. It takes a while to move up through a pack of 80. With forty or so p/1/2s, I can get from tailgunning to the top 5 or so inside 2k, without much fuss. I usually get back up there with 5 laps to go on a short course, 3 on a long one.

It's really really easy on a road race unless the road is narrow or we're down to only one lane.

mattm

Wow thanks for all the responses.

Ah, so there's a distinction is from cat 4/5 down.. this explains why it sounds like such a bad idea to me.

It would have been interesting to "punch tickets" for all 49 people that dropped out of the first real 4/5 crit I did (78 starters, 29 finishers), but it was so chaotic I just wanted to fight to stay up front. Sounds like I should just stick to that tactic until I move up.

umd

Here's a 1/2/3 crit where I was tailgunning. I'm literally the last or next to last dot on the end, one or two riders before the moto... I think there were close to or over 100 riders there.

Edit: That's Tony Cruz on the front, BF member Redal in dark blue a few riders back and I think Merckx89 is behind him.

Racer Ex 

I did the Tulsa Tough P/1 NRC race like that. Not so good with 130 pros.

Voodoo76

Words from a master gunner. Probably a place to avoid early in a race, and you really need to pay attention to gaps. Get enough Pro's pushing the pace in a P/1/2 field and things can break up pretty quick early before they settle down. But it can be fun.

botto 

didn't you just become a 4?

Bobby Lex

If you're going to punch tickets you better hope that the race stays together.

Tailgunning is not a good tactic if any breakaway is successful. Heck, you probably wouldn't even KNOW that there was a breakaway. You'd shrewdly move up in the final few k's and pounce on the sprint for......10th place?

Bob

Psimet2001 

If I'm not actively moving forward I find I am hanging at the back. Total suck in a cat 4. I find I kill myself jumping from wheel to wheel as the fodder comes off the back in the straights rather than the accordian out of the corners....when everyone is popping because of the accordian.

I suck though. Where were we???

Metzinger

I would recommend sitting at the back to any of my opponents.
Increases the probability that they'll not be finishing with the bunch. All the better for me.
Is that what's going on in this thread?
Sabotage?

MONGO!

Wouldn't recommend it in a 4/5, all the random accelerations will kill you.

kniprm

i'm surprised this wasn't caught and corrected.

LorenzoNF

I really shouldn't rise to the bait, but yes, a few races ago. I end up tailgunning all the races I do simply because I don't like fighting for position with sketchy people in corners. Maybe my tactics will change if/when I ever get in races with people as great as you.

botto 

you're going to have to upgrade to do that.

umd

I let it go most of the time...

JohnKScott

That would be me if I had been in that race with you