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Can't do low cadence intervals, lift weights?

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Can't do low cadence intervals, lift weights?

Old 12-11-09, 12:12 PM
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brianappleby
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Can't do low cadence intervals, lift weights?

It's been unrideable outside lately, and my trainer + gear combo in incapable of providing enough resistance for low cadence drills. In the past I haven't done anything with weight lifting. Is there a weight program that can replace the low cadence drills until I can ride outside?

Thanks,
Brian.
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Old 12-11-09, 12:17 PM
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http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5710775/
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Old 12-11-09, 12:37 PM
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setting aside the debate about whether that's even the right way to train, yah, weights are the next best thing. squats, usually, but you can / should also do lunges and deadlifts.

use correct form. if you don't you can seriously mess up your back, like, surgery bad.
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Old 12-11-09, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
setting aside the debate about whether that's even the right way to train, yah, weights are the next best thing. squats, usually, but you can / should also do lunges and deadlifts.

use correct form. if you don't you can seriously mess up your back, like, surgery bad.
step-ups and one-legged squats are good, too.
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Old 12-11-09, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tadawdy View Post
step-ups and one-legged squats are good, too.
For squats, I like "split leg" squats. Otherwise, kettlebells, kettlebells, kettlebells.
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Old 12-11-09, 02:36 PM
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Right now I'm just doing dumbbell lunges, and liking the effects.
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Old 12-11-09, 03:11 PM
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Dumbbell lunges work the same muscles of the legs that squats do without as much chance of hurting your back.

I messed up on my form for a second doing squats today and I'm scared that I'll feel a twinge later. Nothing so far.

BUT. If you can learn to do squats right, then do it.

If you can't do deadlifts, then back extensions with a weight in your hands works your back well too.
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Old 12-11-09, 03:49 PM
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Yeah, I used to do squats and I got stronger than my knees. Screw that.
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Old 12-11-09, 06:17 PM
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Yeah, that's why I think I've injured my shoulder. I backed down from doing 3x5 with 155 to 3x10 with 125. I'll move up the weight eventually. I'm doing like 125 with squats, but my legs have definition so I'm trying to see if I can add more strength. I'm making the push up from the ground as intense as I can. These are 'real' squats btw. Legs parallel to the floor. All the way down is NOT happening...

I'm not going to move up the weight in the squats till I can do them 3x10 with good form.

Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Yeah, I used to do squats and I got stronger than my knees. Screw that.
Knee braces?
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Old 12-11-09, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Knee braces?
No, it wasn't stability, it was pain. I tried them wrapped and unwrapped. Wrapping felt better, but I decided it was stupid to patch myself up just so I could continue an activity that was injuring me. I have too many miles I want to put into these knees.

Lunges don't cause much knee pain, so I'm happier about it.
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Old 12-11-09, 07:27 PM
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Why would you prefer low cadence drills over weightlifting?

http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/setraining/
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Old 12-11-09, 10:19 PM
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Yeah, I tried a few low cadence intervals one time earlier this year, and it was a joke. No comparison in fatigue to sprints or weights.
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Old 12-11-09, 10:48 PM
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That's some good stuff there from Coggin, thanks for posting it. I previously mentioned doing low cadence work on hills specifically as SE work as per Friel. I don't know if I agree that it is equivalent to climbing stairs. When I get done with my hill workout, often my feet actually hurt from how hard I push. Having said this I can't say that it really did anything for me (especially w/o a powermeter).

I also do the big gear and small gear launches. It's a different workout, and I really do believe they're effective. Maybe I'll spend a little more time doing them this year.
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Old 12-11-09, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by schnabler1 View Post
Why would you prefer low cadence drills over weightlifting?

http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/setraining/

Fixed Link fail.
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Old 12-12-09, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Yeah, that's why I think I've injured my shoulder. I backed down from doing 3x5 with 155 to 3x10 with 125. I'll move up the weight eventually. I'm doing like 125 with squats, but my legs have definition so I'm trying to see if I can add more strength. I'm making the push up from the ground as intense as I can. These are 'real' squats btw. Legs parallel to the floor. All the way down is NOT happening...

I'm not going to move up the weight in the squats till I can do them 3x10 with good form.
Knee braces?
This is part of the problem with weight room machismo. "You're not doing it right" usually = "Add more weight, and a bigger ROM, even if it doesn't male any sense." Thankfully, you're at least thinking in the right direction

Put it this way: At the point that you engage your pedal stroke, what is the angle of your upper leg? Is it past parallel to the ground? Hell no. Is it even parallel? Mine isn't, so why would I take my squats deeper? So I can say I take my squats deeper? So I can injure my patellar tendon and meniscus and not be able to do the activity I'm training for?

It's like the mouthbreathers in the gym who don't consider a bench press complete unless the bar hits your sternum, or a pull up descent complete until your arm is straight. Neither is a mechanically advantageous position for the joints involved, so you probably shouldn't be starting any motion at those points. Taking a bench press that far is also hard on the biceps tendon as it crosses the shoulder, as well as the rotator cuff (been there with the biceps tendon). Taking a curl or pull-up to full extension is likewise hard on the biceps tendon.

If an exercise doesn't mimic something you'd do in real life (to some small degree), it often isn't worth doing.
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Old 12-13-09, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Yeah, that's why I think I've injured my shoulder. I backed down from doing 3x5 with 155 to 3x10 with 125. I'll move up the weight eventually. I'm doing like 125 with squats, but my legs have definition so I'm trying to see if I can add more strength. I'm making the push up from the ground as intense as I can. These are 'real' squats btw. Legs parallel to the floor. All the way down is NOT happening...

I'm not going to move up the weight in the squats till I can do them 3x10 with good form.
Knee braces?
Sets with weight that's high enough to warrant 5 reps per set, I believe is counterproductive to *most* types of cycling. Maybe it's good for track racers or sprinters, but even still, you'd have to have enough endurance in your legs to make it to the sprint. I've spent a lot of time strength training (for various sports), and although I've just recently (1 yr.) begun road cycling, I know what's working for me. I believe that you need to look at what your overall goals as a cyclist are. If you aim to have great endurance, you need to train for endurance, etc. (less weight, more reps, although there's scientific evidence that supports no significant gains greater than 15 reps). If you train and lift to have huge, muscular legs, you risk sacrificing endurance, and can actually lower your lactate tolerance in your legs. (I say "in your legs", because threshold is specific to the area of the body being trained)

Both Carmichael and Friel are in favor of low-cadence/high tension drills and have developed on-bike exercises to accomplish this. They both also offer "ranges" for gear selection, so if you want stronger legs (and can handle the easier gearing in the range), you can simply drop a gear or two, and make it harder. With that being said, I fully believe in the "periodization" school of thought, and that there are specific periods in your training regimen that are appropriate for these types of workouts (ie. after you've built...and continue to maintain...a sufficient aerobic foundation).

The weather sucks here, too. It's been rainy, cold, snowy, salty, and now cinders also cover the road. I don't mind it being cold, but I've only got one bike, and I rather like my componentry now...so I minimize my rides in the rain and salt. Check out these trainer workouts: http://www.purpleextreme.com/Info/Tr...e%20Series.pdf I didn't create them, but I use them during inclimate weather. I simply choose a workout that is close to what my schedule calls for , and go to work. My gearing ends up being a little different, but the workouts serve as good guidelines. Also, I do still supplement with weights and KETTLEBELLS throughout the week. I don't substitute for my cycling, instead, usually make them 2-a-days. Of course, my nutrition has to meet my demands, but that's a different discussion.

Hope this helps. You should definitely read a book by either Friel or Carmichael. They both show you how to set up a training season (according to them), as well as offer plenty of theory to keep you entertained and educated. I've read multiple books by both authors, and enjoy them equally.
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