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FTP and W/kg

Old 12-20-09, 10:45 AM
  #1  
Lacking
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FTP and W/kg

Hello I have just two questions to being with.
1) I do not know what FTP actually is, so will someone could help me out there?
2) How can you test your ftp or w/kg if you do not have something like a powertap or cycleops?

I know some of you more financially blessed people out there have power taps and such but seeing as I am new to the sport I cannot afford these luxuries quite yet in my career. I was just wondering if there is anyway I could get my statistics tested for the start of my first race season? I would like to compare them to the end season as well as have them for a start point for next year.
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Old 12-20-09, 11:41 AM
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Everything you need for definitions http://home.trainingpeaks.com/power411.aspx

You can't test your FTP w/out a power meter.
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Old 12-20-09, 11:44 AM
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nice cross post.
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Old 12-20-09, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

You can't test your FTP w/out a power meter.
You can time a 20+ min climb all out and use one of the power calculators like analyticcycling.com to estimate the power you put out. Weight yourself and your bike and gear accurately. 95% of 20 min power is a good estimate for most people. It's not the same as a power meter, but it will show you if you are improving.
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Old 12-20-09, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Lacking View Post
Hello I have just two questions to being with.
1) I do not know what FTP actually is, so will someone could help me out there?
2) How can you test your ftp or w/kg if you do not have something like a powertap or cycleops?

I know some of you more financially blessed people out there have power taps and such but seeing as I am new to the sport I cannot afford these luxuries quite yet in my career. I was just wondering if there is anyway I could get my statistics tested for the start of my first race season? I would like to compare them to the end season as well as have them for a start point for next year.
1) Your language is a bit obnoxious, so if you want help, knock it off. Some of us are broke students, and rearrange our needs to get the things we need to race. So thanks for calling what some people train with luxuries, and those people financially blessed.
2) Fix your freaking tone.
3) Go find a coach who can do a test for you. It should cost less than 50 bucks to an LT test and you can compare before and after season values. In addition, if you're training with an HRM, this will give you the heart rate values you need to train properly.

If you can't afford a PM yet, then go for option 3. Option 1 and 2 are necessary.

God damn, I don't know why that pissed me off so much.
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Old 12-20-09, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
1) Your language is a bit obnoxious, so if you want help, knock it off. Some of us are broke students, and rearrange our needs to get the things we need to race. So thanks for calling what some people train with luxuries, and those people financially blessed.
2) Fix your freaking tone.
3) Go find a coach who can do a test for you. It should cost less than 50 bucks to an LT test and you can compare before and after season values. In addition, if you're training with an HRM, this will give you the heart rate values you need to train properly.

If you can't afford a PM yet, then go for option 3. Option 1 and 2 are necessary.

God damn, I don't know why that pissed me off so much.
whoa! I didn't think he had an attitude. He seemed to ask the question in a clear and sincere manner. And honestly if you can afford a power meter you are somewhat financially blessed.
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Old 12-20-09, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lacking View Post
Hello I have just two questions to being with.
1) I do not know what FTP actually is, so will someone could help me out there?
2) How can you test your ftp or w/kg if you do not have something like a powertap or cycleops?

I know some of you more financially blessed people out there have power taps and such but seeing as I am new to the sport I cannot afford these luxuries quite yet in my career. I was just wondering if there is anyway I could get my statistics tested for the start of my first race season? I would like to compare them to the end season as well as have them for a start point for next year.


What does being "new to the sport" have to do with what you can/cant afford?

...and you can rent a PT at some shops... but you'll need help/advice as to making it useful as well.
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Old 12-20-09, 04:45 PM
  #8  
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My being new to the sport is due to just upgrading from a Sirrus to an Allez plus pedals and shoes. I can not lay another thousand dollars down right now. Those are the reasons I cannot afford a power tap.

Thanks for being really helpful ridethecliche, I honestly didn't know a session with a coach, who might have one, would be an option. Also I had no idea that some shops rent them out. I'll look more into that soon.
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Old 12-20-09, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
1) Your language is a bit obnoxious, so if you want help, knock it off. Some of us are broke students, and rearrange our needs to get the things we need to race. So thanks for calling what some people train with luxuries, and those people financially blessed.
2) Fix your freaking tone.
3) Go find a coach who can do a test for you. It should cost less than 50 bucks to an LT test and you can compare before and after season values. In addition, if you're training with an HRM, this will give you the heart rate values you need to train properly.

If you can't afford a PM yet, then go for option 3. Option 1 and 2 are necessary.

God damn, I don't know why that pissed me off so much.
Apparently you get a little pissy around 4:23 in the afternoon
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Old 12-20-09, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by El Diablo Rojo View Post
Apparently you get a little pissy around 4:23 in the afternoon
prolly couldn't find his bowl.
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Old 12-20-09, 05:12 PM
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The op's wording makes the question more about the privilege of having a power meter than about the item itself.

(And I swear I'm not drinking now and wasn't when I wrote that post. Lol.)
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Old 12-20-09, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lacking View Post
My being new to the sport is due to just upgrading from a Sirrus to an Allez plus pedals and shoes. I can not lay another thousand dollars down right now. Those are the reasons I cannot afford a power tap.

Thanks for being really helpful ridethecliche, I honestly didn't know a session with a coach, who might have one, would be an option. Also I had no idea that some shops rent them out. I'll look more into that soon.
Like I said, I have no reason why your wording pissed me off soo much, but it did for some reason and sorry about that.

I would honestly go to a coach and have them do a session with you to determine your LT.

Renting a shop's power meter will not help you as much as this because there's a steeper learning curve than having a power meter for a weekend.
You'll probably spend less money, and help out a coach who might need the cash. I would go for the coach option.

I've done both, and the coach's numbers were consistent with my own tests.
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Old 12-20-09, 05:18 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
The op's wording makes the question more about the privilege of having a power meter than about the item itself.

(And I swear I'm not drinking now and wasn't when I wrote that post. Lol.)
Hmm, I think you read waaaaaaaaaaay to much into that.
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Old 12-20-09, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
Hmm, I think you read waaaaaaaaaaay to much into that.
I know. Hence the apology.

Dunno why it happened...
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Old 12-21-09, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
You can time a 20+ min climb all out and use one of the power calculators like analyticcycling.com to estimate the power you put out. Weight yourself and your bike and gear accurately. 95% of 20 min power is a good estimate for most people. It's not the same as a power meter, but it will show you if you are improving.
Yep... don't need a powermeter if all you what is an estimate of W/kg @ FTP. My FTP is 90-92% of 20MP though.
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Old 12-21-09, 12:28 PM
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You need a measurement device to get numbers. It's that simple.

However, there is an easy way you can do threshold intervals and get regular updates on your fitness with just a stopwatch. Pick a hill that takes 10-20 minutes to climb . Choose some sort of start and end point (I use mailboxes). Time yourself between the start and end. On a hill that's fairly steep (>6%), your average power will be in direct proportion to your time. As you get fitter, your times will start to decrease.

If you must have a number, you can calculate it directly if you know, with some fair precision, how many vertical feet you climbed. Assuming a fairly steep hill (6% or so) so that gravitational force is mostly what you are opposing (rather than air drag or rolling resistance), your power in watts will be:

Power (in watts) = weight (kg) * 9.8 (m/s^2, gravitational acceleration) * vertical distance (in meters) / time (in seconds)

The hard part about this formula is getting a measure of the actual vertical distance you climbed. Altimeters are a bit sketchy in terms of the precision you need, and GPS is expensive (thought not as much as a power meter). You might be able to use a topo map or an internet variation (like google maps or google earth); I don't know how precise those are thought.
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