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rest week volume

Old 01-18-10, 08:02 AM
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rest week volume

how much volume is your rest week relative to a normal training week?

I recall YMCA writing somewhere to keep volume up, reduce intensity. since i'm a big fatty right now, that makes sense, but my legs are tired from 3 hard 12 hr weeks. plus, I'd like to sleep in past 4:55 a.m. a couple days this week.

I'm thinking 9 hrs. with nothing above 75% ftp.
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Old 01-18-10, 08:09 AM
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My typical training week is 22 hours. My rest week is 12-15.
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Old 01-18-10, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
My typical training week is 22 hours. My rest week is 12-15.
so +/- 65%
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Old 01-18-10, 09:13 AM
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Last week was 15 hrs. This week is my rest week and I'll be doing 10.
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Old 01-18-10, 09:28 AM
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Depends on the fatigue load from your last set of hard weeks. After my last camp, I'm taking 3 days off from riding (other than grocery store runs), then a few easy 1-2 hr rides before I start up training again at the end of the week. But I dug myself a pretty big hole, and if I don't let myself climb most of the way out of it I won't feel the benefits from the work. If the hole was smaller, I would need less time to get out of it.

I also do well on complete rest. Some people take a few days off and feel terrible when they get back on the bike, I feel great. So its really a your mileage may vary kind of thing.
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Old 01-18-10, 09:46 AM
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I dont work with enough consistency or intensity to warrant full rest weeks, so I cant really comment. I tend to unload for a few days at most. If I/the weather manage to get my TSB negative for 2-3 weeks then I'll take a bigger break. Right now I just cant seem to string together more than 1 solid week so my CTL is just staying steady. I need to work as often as possible to keep it from sliding negatively... hard to do when I'm not riding as often as I'd like.

I digress.

I just wanted to suggest that getting some extra sleep AND a mental break from having to wake up early can do wonders for me, so I just wanted to encourage that you reap the benefits of more sleep.
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Old 01-18-10, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeCanon
Depends on the fatigue load from your last set of hard weeks. After my last camp, I'm taking 3 days off from riding (other than grocery store runs), then a few easy 1-2 hr rides before I start up training again at the end of the week. But I dug myself a pretty big hole, and if I don't let myself climb most of the way out of it I won't feel the benefits from the work. If the hole was smaller, I would need less time to get out of it.

I also do well on complete rest. Some people take a few days off and feel terrible when they get back on the bike, I feel great. So its really a your mileage may vary kind of thing.
A couple dumb questions; when you say a big hole, do you feel tired or are you just looking at power numbers?
Does the way you feel usually equate to the numbers, or can you feel tired and still perform well, or vice-versa?
When you get tired/overtrained does your resting hr go up?

Lately I've been feeling stronger on my Fred rides and staying with the group longer but feel pretty drained 2 days later.
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Old 01-19-10, 07:59 AM
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I'm still a believer in keep the mileage up and bring down the intensity. Just ride gently and enjoy the fresh air.
I can't explain the physiology, but I see bodies rebel against cutting hours in half on purpose.

Better to JRA for a couple/few days at a slow pace until you are ready to train again.
If it takes 5 days of that, then so be it, but usually guys are NOT as tired as all that.
Eat some healthy carbs, get some healthy sleep and hit it when you are mentally recharged.
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Old 01-19-10, 08:43 AM
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O.K., so how can you be sure you are ready to up the intensity again without doing more harm than good? I don't have any electronics on the bike and have always just tried to ride as much as I can. Now I'm 55 and still trying to keep up with younger, lighter, fitter people on the limited training I do. Oddly, I've been doing better lately but sometimes it really kicks my ass for a few days.
It seems like I could do better with an 8 day week. I mean if I had 1 more rest/easy day between Saturdays it would be ideal.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:03 AM
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For me it's usually around 30-40% reduction in hours and cutting any real intensity out other than the occasional short hill. I find if I'm going to take days off, they need to be spread apart, otherwise I get the shutdown YMCA talks about.

Best marker I found to figure out if things are working is if you get off the bike feeling better than when you got on it. If I'm not, I either need to drop intensity further or cut back ride time.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by big john
Now I'm 55 and still trying to keep up with younger, lighter, fitter people on the limited training I do. Oddly, I've been doing better lately but sometimes it really kicks my ass for a few days.
.
That's called getting old my friend.
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Old 01-19-10, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by big john
O.K., so how can you be sure you are ready to up the intensity again without doing more harm than good? I don't have any electronics on the bike and have always just tried to ride as much as I can. Now I'm 55 and still trying to keep up with younger, lighter, fitter people on the limited training I do. Oddly, I've been doing better lately but sometimes it really kicks my ass for a few days.
It seems like I could do better with an 8 day week. I mean if I had 1 more rest/easy day between Saturdays it would be ideal.
if you get 1 extra hour of sleep on each of the seven days you've got.....
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Old 01-19-10, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex
That's called getting old my friend.
I'm fighting it!

Originally Posted by ldesfor1@ithaca
if you get 1 extra hour of sleep on each of the seven days you've got.....
After all the years of working I automatically wake up at 5:30 or 6:00 no matter what. Been getting a few naps at work, that helps a little.

Two of the fastest guys from the old days, one a Master's champion, have developed blood pressure and heart problems that slowed them down in their 60s. One hardly rides anymore due to the meds. I'd like to avoid that as long as possible.
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Old 01-19-10, 11:12 AM
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I'd take that...I'm 3:30-4:30
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Old 01-19-10, 11:30 AM
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jeez, gazza, that's been around the time i've been falling asleep for the past week.
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Old 01-19-10, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
I'd take that...I'm 3:30-4:30
How many hours of sleep are you getting during hard weeks?
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Old 01-19-10, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
A couple dumb questions; when you say a big hole, do you feel tired or are you just looking at power numbers?
Does the way you feel usually equate to the numbers, or can you feel tired and still perform well, or vice-versa?
When you get tired/overtrained does your resting hr go up?

Lately I've been feeling stronger on my Fred rides and staying with the group longer but feel pretty drained 2 days later.

Big hole: assessed by feel most of the time, power numbers some of the time. For example, this past camp I just kept feeling stronger and stronger and had no idea why. I'd still be riding today if it hadn't been explained to me - in certain circumstances, your body releases enough endorphins/pain blockers to make you feel great while you're actually doing serious damage. If you continue to ride until those pain blockers are gone, it's already too late, you're looking at overreaching or even over training. Hence the need for some structured rest even when you feel you don't need it, and the aid of power numbers and the PMC.

Think about it this way (Connor, 2010): your body was designed to run away from lions, not ride a bike. When you're putting in a lot of training, your body goes "wow, you're running away from a lot of lions. I better make sure you don't slow down." And so it does, it pumps you full of stuff that makes the pain go away temporarily. At some point, your body goes "ok, you're just a dumbass, stop chasing the lions and they'll stop chasing you" and it pulls the plug on the pain killers. At this point, you've been doing serious damage (unknown to you, since it didn't hurt that bad) for a while, and your F'd.

Why this happens sometimes and not others, I have no idea. I have a theory that when you hear grand tour riders talk about feeling the best in the 3rd week, this is what they're talking about.

That was a bit of a tangent, but my point is this: listen to your body AND keep an eye on the numbers. If the two are telling you very different stories, schedule some structured rest just in case. Now, a few days after I cut off the training, my pain killers are starting to wear off an my legs feel worse than they did the day after the camp. I'll spin for the next few days until they return to normal, hopefully stronger.

Last edited by ZeCanon; 01-19-10 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 01-19-10, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by big john
How many hours of sleep are you getting during hard weeks?
seven
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Old 01-19-10, 01:04 PM
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Good stuff, interesting thread. I read years ago about a study where it was decided that sleep was mostly for the brain and riders were able to perform at a similar level whether they had enough sleep or not.
It seems to me if you feel like crap you aren't going to be enthusiastic about hammering.
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Old 01-19-10, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeCanon
Depends on the fatigue load from your last set of hard weeks. After my last camp, I'm taking 3 days off from riding (other than grocery store runs), then a few easy 1-2 hr rides before I start up training again at the end of the week. But I dug myself a pretty big hole, and if I don't let myself climb most of the way out of it I won't feel the benefits from the work. If the hole was smaller, I would need less time to get out of it.

I also do well on complete rest. Some people take a few days off and feel terrible when they get back on the bike, I feel great. So its really a your mileage may vary kind of thing.
+1
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Old 01-20-10, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by big john
Good stuff, interesting thread. I read years ago about a study where it was decided that sleep was mostly for the brain and riders were able to perform at a similar level whether they had enough sleep or not.
It seems to me if you feel like crap you aren't going to be enthusiastic about hammering.
**** that..... I'll wake up early, have soreness in my legs, and then sleep in a few more hours and have it be gone. Sleeping is not just for the brain - it shouldn't take a genius to figure that out.
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Old 01-20-10, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by andre nickatina
**** that..... I'll wake up early, have soreness in my legs, and then sleep in a few more hours and have it be gone. Sleeping is not just for the brain - it shouldn't take a genius to figure that out.
agreed, sleep is imperative
you can fake it for a little bit, but that sleepiness will catch up with you big time
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Old 01-20-10, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ZeCanon
Big hole: assessed by feel most of the time, power numbers some of the time. For example, this past camp I just kept feeling stronger and stronger and had no idea why. I'd still be riding today if it hadn't been explained to me - in certain circumstances, your body releases enough endorphins/pain blockers to make you feel great while you're actually doing serious damage. If you continue to ride until those pain blockers are gone, it's already too late, you're looking at overreaching or even over training. Hence the need for some structured rest even when you feel you don't need it, and the aid of power numbers and the PMC.

Think about it this way (Connor, 2010): your body was designed to run away from lions, not ride a bike. When you're putting in a lot of training, your body goes "wow, you're running away from a lot of lions. I better make sure you don't slow down." And so it does, it pumps you full of stuff that makes the pain go away temporarily. At some point, your body goes "ok, you're just a dumbass, stop chasing the lions and they'll stop chasing you" and it pulls the plug on the pain killers. At this point, you've been doing serious damage (unknown to you, since it didn't hurt that bad) for a while, and your F'd.

Why this happens sometimes and not others, I have no idea. I have a theory that when you hear grand tour riders talk about feeling the best in the 3rd week, this is what they're talking about.

That was a bit of a tangent, but my point is this: listen to your body AND keep an eye on the numbers. If the two are telling you very different stories, schedule some structured rest just in case. Now, a few days after I cut off the training, my pain killers are starting to wear off an my legs feel worse than they did the day after the camp. I'll spin for the next few days until they return to normal, hopefully stronger.

^^^
very nicely written

I have guys doing practice stage races and they never think they'd be able to handle the load, yet always find they actually ride better at that weekends races. Plenty of carbs and voila.

The key though is to get sufficient rest after said blocks, more for the mind than the body.

I'll have guys spin gently for however many days it takes. While still putting in some decent hours. You can't prescribe rest ahead of time, it does not work that way!

#1 reason for having a fitness coach is not to prescribe workouts, it is to deal with fatigue smartly and find new limits.

If that coach can also teach technique, tactics and teamwork, then you are going to succeed.

Last edited by YMCA; 01-20-10 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 01-20-10, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by andre nickatina
**** that..... I'll wake up early, have soreness in my legs, and then sleep in a few more hours and have it be gone. Sleeping is not just for the brain - it shouldn't take a genius to figure that out.
The study was many years ago, maybe more than 20. Those people are always revising their thinking.

The issue that I have is not soreness in the legs, it's more the heart and general fatigue. I'll try to go for an easy spin today if the rain stops and see how that goes.
This past Saturday my legs did get weak on the last climb and that hasn't happened for a while. Sunday I was able to go pretty hard on the flats but the climbs had my legs screaming. Kinda backs up what Ze said.
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Old 01-20-10, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by YMCA
^^^
very nicely written

I have guys doing practice stage races and they never think they'd be able to handle the load, yet always find they actually ride better at that weekends races. Plenty of carbs and voila.

The key though is to get sufficient rest after said blocks, more for the mind than the body.

I'll have guys spin gently for however many days it takes. While still putting in some decent hours. You can't prescribe rest ahead of time, it does not work that way!

#1 reason for having a fitness coach is not to prescribe workouts, it is to deal with fatigue smartly and find new limits.

If that coach can also teach technique, tactics and teamwork, then you are going to succeed.
This statement encourages me in a serious way. Keep it coming, guys.

-L
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