ft_critical

I have started to ride some Cat2 equivalent races and am only lasting ¾ of the crit before being dropped. This is causing me much depression.
I am able to win Cat3 crits and Vets Cat2 crits. Including making breaks, leading out, sprinting etc. The crits are undulating and around 70min duration in all cases.
I don’t have a power meter. Sorry.
I have looked back over two years of HR data I keep though. The trend is pretty clear.
My max HR is 187/9 and in my normal races and hard group rides I avg between 158 and 168. For my Cat2 crits I am at 179 avg. The pattern is that Cat2 are caught by Cat1 (handicap) and I just can’t stay connected to the train when the pace lifts. It is down the main straight where they accelerate from a banked turn – of course I am in the rear 1/3rd of the group. I just can’t hold the wheel in front of me anymore. I last less or more depending on my level of resolve, but never to the end of the crit.
I try to cope (get my HR under control) by clicking up a gear, but I just can’t stay on. I am not alone, but that is hardly the point.
My own assessment, sadly, is that I am just under-powered and am resorting to my cardio (spinning a higher gear at higher HR) ability to stay in the group. But when the pace lifts I have no reserve to draw on and just blow up or give up.
The question part is how to improve. My idea has been just to race more of these races. I have improved but I did not improve this week. Most of the improvement has been better speed skills as Joe Friel would describe them. I am sure other people have experienced this. Could you tell me how you overcame this type of problem please?
In sum, I am relying on my cardio system to get me through (high HR) and I blow up when the pace lifts. I can’t seem to stay connected in a higher gear (thus lower HR.) Should I just keep racing hard and I will eventually get there or is there something else I need to be doing? Really appreciate any help ‘cause, as I said, this is knocking my confidence around a lot, even off the bike.

umd

Do you do any group rides with cat 1/2 people? Do you have trouble keeping up with them? Unless your 3s are ridiculously uncompetitive, I find it odd that you would be able to win in the 3s and be off the back in the 2s.

I don't know what it's like where you are, but here are there are so many strong 3s it's very competitive and those that are able to beat the others and upgrade do pretty well in the 2s. Also I just did a 1-3 crit and didn't have any trouble sitting in, and actually used less power despite higher speeds.

Issaquatch

OP -- Where are you racing?

ZeCanon

So the 2's are getting caught by the 1's, then you get dropped? So you're really getting dropped by the 1's, which isn't that surprising. The gap from 3's to 1's is massive.

I can't think of any advice other than work on that high power stuff. You're in a different league now, instead of 1 or 2 high power Waterrockets types yanking at the front of the field, there are 20...

ft_critical

Okay so this is in Australia. 1s have international and local pros so they are pretty tough. In truth I should have gone into Cat3 in this particular comp.

But I guess more my questions centres around how to get better. I would have thought that riding a higher grade, I would naturally improve. But I am beginning to think that there might be more to it than that.

What is the high power stuff? Is that TT style work by myself, trying to maintain a higher output and doing less racing? Or will just hanging in there in these races do that?

waterrockets 

I went through a similar situation and just downgraded back to Cat 3. Screw it, this is supposed to be fun.

Nothing wrong with being king of the dip*****s every so often

ZeCanon

No I was referring to the increased amount of time spent in the 600-1200w range in cat 1/2 events. So yes, continuing to race is probably one of the best ways to work those systems.

Raising threshold is never going to hurt though.

To be honest, your question is impossible to answer with anything other than "get faster." How you do that is the subject of hundreds of books and most of this forum, so I doubt you'll get anything too useful in a single post.

ft_critical

I confess it has not been fun at all so far. I think I will do the rest of the series and if I don't finish one, I will down grade for next time - I think my results will support that with the commisaires.

Damn. And I thought it would be as simple as do more sustained 2x20s OR just hang in there buddy it will come.

wanders

Hang in there buddy, it will come.




From someone who can't hang in there with the 3's.

SteelerHoo

i think the fellas pretty much covered it, simple question with many complex answers.

pack positioning is easier to fix. sounds like you know that it is easier in the front. sometimes getting to and staying near the front is more about confidence than fitness.

next race try sticking your nose into the front 1/3 like you belong there as opposed to accepting your lot in life at the back.

ft_critical

Race before last, I did a lot of work on the front. Then got in a chase group of just me, chasing a 4 man break. Sitting in no-mans land. Then the 1s came through trailing a bunch of 2s who wouldn't work to chase the break and ... guess what happened.
Yep I was gone. This race I thought I need to save matches. That didn't work either.

Fat Boy

.....

txvintage

Oh ya!? Well, You just, I mean, Well.

Ah, I got nuthin.

EDIT: Yes I do.

GET OFF MY LAWN!

waterrockets 

Glad someone got the 80s movie reference.

/feeling older

Racer Ex 

Depending on who shows up, you might have to save all your matches. Staying at the front 1/3 may be good advice or not so good depending on the course, speed, and if you're throwing away matches just to try to move up.

At some point in time we all hit our genetic ceiling and unless you have a time machine and can go back and swap parents, well, there you are. Keep after it, train to simulate the kind of efforts you think you need to stay on, and see if things improve.

waterrockets 

FWIW, I lined up at the back of one P12 crit and only lasted 17 minutes. The next day I assertively wedged myself between some pros and 1s right on the line and lasted 24 minutes... so that's something.

I didn't really have much choice of where to ride in the pack. At the beginning I was able to maintain position somewhat, but I was still sliding back in the pack the whole time due to crappy fitness.

Fat Boy

That's because we are.

StefanG

Cycling is like any other sport ... you are more likely to improve faster against strong competition than weaker competition. But, if its sucks all of the fun out of it, then you have to ask yourself why you're in the sport: To have fun, to get better, or some combination - just have to weigh the pros and cons and choose a course.

If you're goal is to become a 1 some day, then I suggest staying with the 2's and continue to work hard trying to improve - and save up for a power meter, as you're at a disadvantage without one. If your goal is to have fun and compete for wins, then drop back to where you can be competitive.

It comes down to personal goals.

caloso

I'm coming to grips with the fact that I'll never be a 2. And I'm okay with that.

ft_critical

But RacerEx I dreamed my genetic ceiling would be so much higher... I will have stern words with my parents.

But seriously, I do hope that it is not that... yet.

Nice summary StefanG. I do one other race and a race intensity group ride each week. These are fun, so I guess as long as I can maintain the balance of fun on these versus unfun plus a glimer of hope in the Cat2 races, I can hang in there. I just wish there was a little secret that all the 2s and 1s knew that could be told to me in tongues, and I could focus on that.

Seems not though.

ZeCanon

Ok, I'll tell you my secret in super secret Cat 1 Code:

esab eguh a teg

Enthalpic

It would be much easier just to create a viral vector and change your genes…



These guys already know how to add additional EPO genes.

The_Cretin

Fire your coach...

StefanG

The rest of the Cat 5's will probably get upset with me for publicizing this, but a group of us Cat 5's ran over a Cat 1 the other day (because that's what we do - run into and over other riders), and stole his decoder ring. So, your secret is out! Too bad I still need to complete my 10 mass starts to upgrade But, after that...look out!

Fat Boy

I read about this from a guy over in the 217 that says Lance has been doing this for years.