ldesfor1@ithaca

This question was spawned by a quote from a recent thread on TSB.

PROCRIT wrote:

"One thing I had tendency to do last yr was trying to set pr's on my intervals on weekly training rides because my legs felt so great, but wound up 'using them up' sometimes before I'd get to a race. I think once you get the form going, you really need to race and not waste it on crazy training rides... But I digress... "

The tendency to really listen to my PE scale while training and generally "hold back" durring training rides is also something I practice.
I even seem to periodize my "holding-back": holding back more in the BASE periods and slowly allowing myself more freedom to let the legs and lungs truly deliver hard, hard efforts.
As BUILD periods begin I allow more race like intensities, but rarely. It is not until 4-8 weeks out from a peak that I really open up the throttle in some mid march training crits.


ALSO: Friel speaks similarly about "finishing a workout with the feeling that: 'I could have done one more interval'". Or to paraphrase: never really emptying the tank in training.

So, my question is this:

Do YOU think that delivering "all out, i puked, couldnt have done another, bonked" performances too often in training is a detriment to season-long success in road racing?

If so, why?

If not, why?

Defining YOUR preferd frequency of "all out" efforts may be helpful too.

-L

ldesfor1@ithaca

I'll start:
Personally I do not think that I truly deliver any real "all out efforts" until the faster GR's and the training crits start in late march. Only exception being the 2 indoor TT's I do in mid february. Until then, I'm pretty much unable to go all out by my own motivation. I think this speaks to why I seem to hang in races that really dont suit me... I'm too wussy to generate maximal performances in practice.

kensuf

Yes; rest makes you stronger. If you're racing, you need to be resting during the week.

During build periods (pre-season) I'm quite happy with burying myself. 8x10's, 4x15's, 3x20's, etc. Now that I'm racing every weekend my schedule basically looks like: T - 2.5 hours w/short vo2max efforts & sprints (4x2's, 8x15"s). W-3 hours endurance. Th-90 minutes easy. F-60-90 minutes easy with a few intervals at below what I would normally do them at to open the legs up (1x5, 1x3, 1x2, 1x1). Sa/Su - race.

bdcheung

I don't have the same drugs (endorphins. adrenaline.) pumping through me in training as I do racing. My best numbers have come in races.

gsteinb

My training is far harder than my races actually are.

IKYR

I remember reading somewhere about the Aussie national track team (I think), if a rider couldn't hit their wattage/time targets or if they set a PR they would be sent home to rest. The reasoning was if they set a PR they would do exactly as you said and usually ended up overextending themselves during the workout...

wayne

Voodoo76

That was strictly for Match Sprinters, when they were training for max efforts.

What the OP is describing isn't all that unusuall. The world is full of Tuesday night wonders.

Lilac J

I try to set periodic PR's in training because I have a set course I train on so it's a good way to benchmark progress. One or two laps all out won't kill me or my training, but it does give me a sense of where I'm at relative to others, a month ago, a year ago, etc. With races on all different courses, it's much harder for me to see how I've improved. So i trust the numbers in training almost more than I do in racing.

Racer Ex 

Yep.

During the meat of my race season I don't destroy myself in training but before, absolutely. Other than a few peaking efforts, my training numbers are always better than race numbers.

The only time I'd be OK with setting a PB in a race would be if the effort had me crossing the line with my arms raised and the rest of the field in tatters.

If you're setting PB's in a race and not winning, it might be worthwhile to revisit your race management.

bdcheung

Maybe that's what I've been doing wrong. Probably a n00b move but I'd been saving my big efforts for races.

Time to train harder!

Creakyknees

Yes to the OP, I do ease up a it like RacerEx does, especially in season. A killer hard workout can leave me feeling it for a couple of weeks afterward.

But, its February, I have o goal events for months, so if I feel the urge I will unleash the furry.

waterrockets 

I've noticed that I did better racing when I had people in the training status thread saying "Dude, you test too much."

I'm bumping it up now. Killer instinct needs to come back.

procrit

I really meant the statement towards doing balls out intervals too much once you are on form. This winter I've been riding on the edge a lot. Come time for peaking in april, you won't find me blowing it out on my 2x20s within two weeks of the big weekend.

to each his own though...

ldes, got any races coming up?

MDcatV

my best #s have come from training except for a race i did in july where i hit bests for 1' through 3 minutes (it was a little over 3' minute climb of 15+% with a kom at the top). however, except as noted, my #s in races are rarely close to what I do in training. although my #s arent near what half the guys in this forum post, yet i've had some racing success. go figure.

MDcatV

are you including TTs in this analysis?

ldesfor1@ithaca

Very interesting replies. It seems that there is a great variance amongst some very accomplished racers. Thanks for the input.


Oh yah, BUMP.

ZeCanon

The shorter the duration, the less likely I am to get PR's in racing.

I simply cannot or will not push myself as hard for 3 hours as I will in order to stay in the front group of a race.

Racer Ex 

Yes because:

"The only time I'd be OK with setting a PB in a race would be if the effort had me crossing the line with my arms raised and the rest of the field in tatters"

OK, I don't raise my arm till a little later.