dmb2786

+1

Elixirs are way too bright on my guitar at least. I don't know why everyone goes for that.

El Diablo Rojo

I'm looking forward to getting together with you and adopt that position to my rig...I was really blown away on how comfortable your bike is..not road bike comfortable but very very close.

Grumpy McTrumpy

I'm fairly comfy on my TT bike since I got the Cobb saddle.

ldesfor1@ithaca

thanks. If I can, I'll get some more photos up.
I've adjusted the extensions so that I'm reallt solidly positioned in the bars. Better with the pads under my elbows more. Feels pretty effortless to hold the position, except for holding my head in the right spot.

thanks.

-L

rruff

Elbows together and a little lower in the front if possible. Practice...

recon455

+1. Any position that will make you very uncomfortable will make you lose concentration.

ldesfor1@ithaca

Took a (low quality, sorry) video, more critiques are very appreciated.

-L

ridethecliche

I posted this on the training status thread but:

Looks like your saddle could be higher and your stem longer. Your knee angles look weird to me, but I suppose you know better than I on that front. Still look like you could be lower and longer.

Nate552

I vote for lower.

ldesfor1@ithaca

me too. I need to get an adjustbale 140 stem, stat.

thanks.

waterrockets 

I think you should get out and do some coast-downs at this point. With your current equipment, if you pull your extensions back a bit, then tip them up, your elbows will go lower. It may also be less drag, but you need to test that. You're at a height similar to Cancellara or Armstrong, so lower may not be the answer.

Grumpy McTrumpy

armstrong is not that big

and he also lowered his TT position this year (probably realized that AC beat him with a far more aero position)

ldesfor1@ithaca

i'm nearly 6 4"

coastdown. good idea.

I also think I can get my elbows closer together.

thanks.

waterrockets 

That's fine, I'm not saying there's no reason to go lower. Just that there's no reason to make wild equipment-buying position changes from what I'm seeing. In the video without supporting data. Lower may be faster... maybe not. Narrower too - will be likely less drag, but may kill power. Coast Downs with long intervals will generate some data.

Grumpy McTrumpy

or you could try the Chung method. I think Chung himself has been here in the 33 a bit lately.

https://anonymous.coward.free.fr/watt...direct-cda.pdf

Nate552

I dunno Spartacus gets into a pretty low position, and it's fast.




I wouldn't say an adjustable stem is crazy equipment change . While it's true lower may decrease power, a lot of times it doesn't. Many times that drop in power is simply due to lack of time on the TT bike. He'll just need to ride the position and monitor his power. Also, Like Grumpy said, if you have a powermeter, the Chung method isn't that hard to do. I've done coast downs and the Chung method and prefer the Chung method.

ldesfor1@ithaca

yah. thanks again, guys.

I think that I can go lower, just based on the fact that I dropped my elbows off the pads and onto the base bar (a significant drop) and could still pedal with power and comfort.

I resist moving my pads backwards as I'm just barely to pedal out of the saddle without hitting my knees on the pad supports. I still have to be weary of them when out of the saddle, but it's not too bad as is.

I think I will take out the dremmel tool and trim down the pad supports 5mm or so and see if I can get a bit more clearance.

Chung method seems useful. I may (should, but may not commit the time) try it.

It seems that I'm quickly adapting to the position in the video. The Cobb saddle is a heavensent peice of saddlery. I cant belive how comfy I am on the "rivet". After 8 hours or so on the TT bike, it is feeling more and more "natural".

Quite honestly, even if I can get a 2-4 cm lower, with similar comfort, I belive I can hold (in 6 weeks for my first TT of importance) 330-360 AP for the entire 11 mile TT. The TT is very slightly (!%) and steadily uphill.

We'll see.

Keep the tips coming.

-L

Grumpy McTrumpy

Killington?

ldesfor1@ithaca

is it just me or do LA and I have a pretty similar position (upper back hump, sort of short stroke with regard to knee bend, positioning on same saddle, bit of fat at belly area).

I dont know if this is a good thing, but just looks similar to me.

Grumpy McTrumpy

armstrong has a bit less hip rotation.

ldesfor1@ithaca

yes. I saw that too.... he seems to be on a less steep seat tube angle, right?

my Jamis is 76* with the cobb saddle slammed all the way forward... NOT UCI LEGAL (?)



yes, Killington SR.

CTSR the week after followed by working mans SR and Fitchburg SR.

Grumpy McTrumpy

the UCI rules only apply to events like Nationals

DrWJODonnell

The question I want to ask is, Are you comfortable? You look it, but it has been brought up before - your knee angle looks impressively large. I would say most fall in the range of 15-20 degrees when extended, but you seem to be beyond that - as in 45-60 degrees. Could be a function of crank length as your knees are nowhere near your massive torso, but I would wonder if you can develop more power by raising the saddle. This would result in your body SEEMING lower (lower saddle to bar drop) and will close down the hip angle a bit as well, so be sure to move the saddle forward to try to keep the angle the same if you are comfortable at that pedaling angle.

If however, the BB-seat is the correct measurement for you and you just pedal in that position, then I am not sure I would change a whole lot. Its a good position, and while physically it looks like you could lower yourself, I have no idea how flexible you are or where your power wheelhouse is. Be comfortable, generate power. You will do well with that.

Racer Ex 

I thought the same thing, pretty tight knee at the top of the stroke which might be playing into the rocking. Also noticed you're moving around on the seat a bit, which had me question the seat angle. You should be able to stay in one position without fighting to keep yourself there. And as you move up it looks like you're hitting your knees into the backs of your arms. as long as this is just brushing and you're not subconsciously swinging your knees in or out this isn't a bad thing, but check your pedal stroke and knee position because if you are moving the knees, it could account for some of the rocking and isn't a good long term power thing.

FWIW several of the good TT's guys here are going to shorter cranks on their TT bikes. While it's against the "old school" wisdom, it lets them get a bit lower and reduces the amount of closing up on the hips. I found that those tight angles at the hips and knees produce a pretty severe power drop after around 15-20 minutes for me.

One thing you really need to look at is how your helmet sits in this position, or others if you're going to change things. Big impact.

rruff

Last year during the important races Lance used a very rearward saddle position and he was quite low in the front. In Hawaii the major change was moving his saddle forward... we'll see if he sticks with that. Frankly, I think his performance in the TTs was about right considering his performance in the mountains... he just didn't have the same power he used to.

I'm not a fan of forward saddle positions since it requires you to use your upper body to push yourself back, *if* you use the same pedaling motion you do on the road. Some TTers like Contador do the "carriage return" to constantly push themselves back, and Cancellara seems pretty comfortable on the rivet. I noticed that it looked like you were using shoulder tension to keep from scooting forward, which is probably not ideal. I like a position where the upper body is relaxed.

I'd suggest getting that adjustable stem, and try being lower and also having the saddle farther back. One nice thing about practicing extreme positions (tighter/lower) is that it is always easy to go less extreme later if you wish. I have a lot of time with this position and it feels fine... elbows are touching... saddle nose 7cm behind the BB (1cm forward relative to the road bike).