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Statistics. (Euro's please chime n)

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Statistics. (Euro's please chime n)

Old 04-25-10, 08:06 PM
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Creakyknees
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Statistics. (Euro's please chime n)

Fans of baseball, football, golf, and other American sports are stats nuts. Baseball especially, they have statistics for stuff that I'm not even sure I understand.

But, beyond the endless wattage discussions, I don't hear bike race fans talking about stats.

Things like # of wins / place / show per start for a rider, or % of the time that this particular race ends in a sprint vs solo. I have seen the occasional graphic showing the relative workload in a break group, which is cool.

What kind of stats would you find interesting?
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Old 04-25-10, 08:40 PM
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No...
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Old 04-25-10, 10:39 PM
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Hallo, ja im Deutschland wir sind nicht so concerned über statistisches. Verleicht im Fußball, der Mensch das hat der meisten tore. Aber wir sind nicht so furrect wie die Amerikaner.
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Old 04-26-10, 01:59 AM
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it's not about the stats.
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Old 04-26-10, 02:51 AM
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it's about the palmares for a select few.
for the majority it's about sacrifice, teamwork & selflessness;
stuff that doesn't show up in a "box score" but endears
them to the true fans of the sport.
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Old 04-26-10, 08:13 AM
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Stats bore the sthi out of me. My wife is Euro, does that count?
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Old 04-26-10, 09:31 AM
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i am all about statistics in baseball. ask me about uzr/150, wpa, fip, and i can tell you all about it. but, that is because baseball is a sport that is particularly well suited to statistical analysis. each player bats as an individual. each player pitches as an individual. each park is nearly identical, and the differences can be normalized through the sheer number of at bats home and away. other sports are not nearly as well suited for statistics.

look at soccer, far and away the most popular and money-generating sport in the world. if someone could develop a statistical engine for measuring player skill, there would be a considerable payout and a huge audience. however, as of yet, the statistical analysis of soccer is pretty poor. there are a few companies trying to do that right now, but seem to be fizzling out based on lack of useful data.

cycling, while perhaps not as poorly suited to statistical analysis as 'team chemistry sports' like soccer, will not be easy to describe with statistics. there are too many unquanitifiable variables that are not consicely described via numbers.
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Old 04-26-10, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Caad 8 View Post
Hallo, ja im Deutschland wir sind nicht so concerned über statistisches. Verleicht im Fußball, der Mensch das hat der meisten tore. Aber wir sind nicht so furrect wie die Amerikaner.
8th grade Deutsch?

nicht so concerned?
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Old 04-26-10, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
i am all about statistics in baseball. ask me about uzr/150, wpa, fip, and i can tell you all about it. but, that is because baseball is a sport that is particularly well suited to statistical analysis. each player bats as an individual. each player pitches as an individual. each park is nearly identical, and the differences can be normalized through the sheer number of at bats home and away. other sports are not nearly as well suited for statistics.
Baseball also moves in slow-motion, so that helps.

In fact I would guess that's how the popularity of scoring/stats came about.. what else do you do between the action?
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Old 04-26-10, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
i am all about statistics in baseball. ask me about uzr/150, wpa, fip, and i can tell you all about it. but, that is because baseball is a sport that is particularly well suited to statistical analysis. each player bats as an individual. each player pitches as an individual. each park is nearly identical, and the differences can be normalized through the sheer number of at bats home and away. other sports are not nearly as well suited for statistics.

look at soccer, far and away the most popular and money-generating sport in the world. if someone could develop a statistical engine for measuring player skill, there would be a considerable payout and a huge audience. however, as of yet, the statistical analysis of soccer is pretty poor. there are a few companies trying to do that right now, but seem to be fizzling out based on lack of useful data.

cycling, while perhaps not as poorly suited to statistical analysis as 'team chemistry sports' like soccer, will not be easy to describe with statistics. there are too many unquanitifiable variables that are not consicely described via numbers.
this.
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Old 04-26-10, 12:50 PM
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to be fair, winning seems to be the only stat that people remember in cycling. I'd be willing to bet that there are some folks on this board who know how many lifetime wins as a professional Merckx had, or maybe Hinault.

Also stats like "who has the most tour stage wins" "who won the most classics" etc.

It's not really all that interesting (and it's usually the same bunch of guys). I cannot think of a way you could quantify a statistic like "number of leadouts that produced a team win".

There is plenty of math in cycling though. Simply look up some of the records for ascents on Huez or Mt Ventoux, or the hour record, or the 1000m.
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Old 04-26-10, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Baseball also moves in slow-motion, so that helps.

In fact I would guess that's how the popularity of scoring/stats came about.. what else do you do between the action?
scoring your own game while watching was pretty common in the old days.
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Old 04-26-10, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
scoring your own game while watching was pretty common in the old days.
i am usually one of the youngest people that gets the 75 cent scorecard when i go to games. i love it. baseball is an acquired taste, but the ebb and flow is delightful once appreciated.
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Old 04-26-10, 01:38 PM
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I'd love to see a bike race broken down statistically, something along the lines of 'percentage of riders reporting good sensations' or 'rider average depth in pain cave'
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Old 04-26-10, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
i am all about statistics in baseball. ask me about uzr/150, wpa, fip, and i can tell you all about it. but, that is because baseball is a sport that is particularly well suited to statistical analysis. each player bats as an individual. each player pitches as an individual. each park is nearly identical, and the differences can be normalized through the sheer number of at bats home and away. other sports are not nearly as well suited for statistics.

look at soccer, far and away the most popular and money-generating sport in the world. if someone could develop a statistical engine for measuring player skill, there would be a considerable payout and a huge audience. however, as of yet, the statistical analysis of soccer is pretty poor. there are a few companies trying to do that right now, but seem to be fizzling out based on lack of useful data.

cycling, while perhaps not as poorly suited to statistical analysis as 'team chemistry sports' like soccer, will not be easy to describe with statistics. there are too many unquanitifiable variables that are not consicely described via numbers.
in some aspects-yes. in others, such as foul territory size, prevailing breeze, outfield dimensions, hitters backgrounds, shadows-not so much.
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Old 04-26-10, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
in some aspects-yes. in others, such as foul territory size, prevailing breeze, outfield dimensions, hitters backgrounds, shadows-not so much.
there are plenty of differences. however, we can compare the 750 innings at home with the 750 innings played away to make park adjustments. while that doesn't mean that the stat calculations "see" a short left field porch, taller grass or a more crisp backdrop, they do see a higher hr rate or a higher average or higher obp which is then plugged into park adjusted metrics like statcorner's woba*.

additionally, even though there are some slight difference between parks, good hitters will always be good hitters. albert pujols will be amazing if he plays in cincinnati or san diego. conversely, cycling is very dependent on the course. cavendish will never win a gt mountain stage and riccardo ricco should never win a northern classic.
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Old 04-26-10, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
i am usually one of the youngest people that gets the 75 cent scorecard when i go to games. i love it. baseball is an acquired taste, but the ebb and flow is delightful once appreciated.
I prefer even test match cricket.
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Old 04-26-10, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by marsh283 View Post
8th grade Deutsch?

nicht so concerned?
haha, actually, and unfortunately, if you've been to Germany, many Germans now speak this way. I call it Denglish (Deutsch and English)

As a German myself, I cannot stand when my countries people mix the languages so much. I hear it all the time when I visit there.
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Old 04-26-10, 03:35 PM
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Mel Ott was the definition of a home-er homer hitter.
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Old 04-26-10, 04:56 PM
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I have the statistic that predicts tour the france winners. It's complicated, so bear with me.

Percentage of pedal strokes above FTP treshold wattage, DIVIDED by length of race (cobble sections count double), MINUS cadence revolutions per 5 minutes, TIMES aerodynamic coefficient of rider in the drops, PLUS stolen bases on average per game.
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Old 04-26-10, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dizzy101 View Post
I have the statistic that predicts tour the france winners. It's complicated, so bear with me.

Percentage of pedal strokes above FTP treshold wattage, DIVIDED by length of race (cobble sections count double), MINUS cadence revolutions per 5 minutes, TIMES aerodynamic coefficient of rider in the drops, PLUS stolen bases on average per game.
Don't forget to factor in 'median success rate accessing suitcase of courage'
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Old 04-27-10, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Caad 8 View Post
As a German myself, I cannot stand when my countries people mix the languages so much. I hear it all the time when I visit there.
I was wondering where you came from, and noticed some of your posts had a decidedly German syntax to them. As far as Denglish is concerned, Danglish has it beat by a long shot, the bits of Danish I do understand are almost all phrases that have been adopted from English
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