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Unattached rider fees

Old 04-30-10, 12:21 PM
  #1  
bdcheung
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Unattached rider fees

Most races in our area charge a $5 fee for unattached riders (exc. Men's 5 and Women's 4)

What about yours? What are your thoughts on either a $5 "tax" on unattached riders or a $5 "discount" for riders on teams?
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Old 04-30-10, 12:22 PM
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Old 04-30-10, 12:23 PM
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They don't do that out here in WSBA-land..

What's the reasoning again?

General punishment for not being on a team? Certainly there's a better reason.. please fill me in.
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Old 04-30-10, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
What's the reasoning again?
In our district, teams host and promote races.

I see the fee as a tax on those who reap all the benefits of others' hard work without contributing volunteer hours themselves.
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Old 04-30-10, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
They don't do that out here in WSBA-land..

What's the reasoning again?

General punishment for not being on a team? Certainly there's a better reason.. please fill me in.
glass as half full: giving racers an extra incentive to join a club.
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Old 04-30-10, 12:55 PM
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My club doesn't put on any races. I wouldn't mind the fee.
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Old 04-30-10, 01:00 PM
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I think it's a carry over from the old USCF days when Clubs were required to contibute a lot more to the sport. Eg. instead of Cat 5 we had club races for development. There were good reasons to get new riders into the sport thru a club.
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Old 04-30-10, 01:01 PM
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I get the idea of incentive to join a team - for me an incentive was not to be "one of those guys" - you kind of stand out when not on a team, at least around here.

Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
In our district, teams host and promote races.

I see the fee as a tax on those who reap all the benefits of others' hard work without contributing volunteer hours themselves.
Does mabra have a problem with huge amounts of unattached riders filling up fields? Around here there will be 1-3 unattached guys in a 50+ strong field (in the beginner cats anyway).. I'm surprised anyone would care enough to tax them extra.

What if someone doesn't have the $$ for team dues, kits, etc? Would mabra rather they didn't race at all?

Fwiw teams put on most races here too, and we don't have this fee. Then again I don't think some teams do put on races.

It might make more sense to me if they didn't "tax" unattached 5's, but did it for 1-4's.. (kind of like allowing one-day license for 5's)

In the end, it's not a huge deal though. So this is a big deal on the mabra listserv I hear?
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Old 04-30-10, 01:03 PM
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TX doesn't charge unatt fees any more.

Personally, I don't care either way but if I was unatt I'd certainly be against 'em.

The whole "clubs promote races" bit doesn't wash with me.
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Old 04-30-10, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Does mabra have a problem with huge amounts of unattached riders filling up fields? Around here there will be 1-3 unattached guys in a 50+ strong field (in the beginner cats anyway).. I'm surprised anyone would care enough to tax them extra.

What if someone doesn't have the $$ for team dues, kits, etc? Would mabra rather they didn't race at all?

Fwiw teams put on most races here too, and we don't have this fee. Then again I don't think some teams do put on races.

It might make more sense to me if they didn't "tax" unattached 5's, but did it for 1-4's.. (kind of like allowing one-day license for 5's)

In the end, it's not a huge deal though. So this is a big deal on the mabra listserv I hear?
It escalated into a minor flameware (with someone calling me a bigot, no less) on the listserv. I wanted to hear how things were run in other parts of the country, to gain some perspective, so I started this thread.

I can't say whether or not MABRA has "huge amounts" of unattached riders in fields. The financial argument has been made, and I understand it. Club dues aren't cheap around here, but then again neither is the sport.

And the $5 "tax" doesn't apply to Cat5 men or Cat4 women.
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Old 04-30-10, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Creakyknees View Post
The whole "clubs promote races" bit doesn't wash with me.
Around here the clubs don't just promote the races, they also staff them.

If everyone rode unattached, there wouldn't be any races around here.
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Old 04-30-10, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Voodoo76 View Post
I think it's a carry over from the old USCF days when Clubs were required to contibute a lot more to the sport. Eg. instead of Cat 5 we had club races for development. There were good reasons to get new riders into the sport thru a club.
i've been told this is correct
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Old 04-30-10, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bdcheung View Post
It escalated into a minor flameware (with someone calling me a bigot, no less) on the listserv. I wanted to hear how things were run in other parts of the country, to gain some perspective, so I started this thread.

I can't say whether or not MABRA has "huge amounts" of unattached riders in fields. The financial argument has been made, and I understand it. Club dues aren't cheap around here, but then again neither is the sport.

And the $5 "tax" doesn't apply to Cat5 men or Cat4 women.
why?
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Old 04-30-10, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Fwiw teams put on most races here too, and we don't have this fee. Then again I don't think some teams do put on races.
As I understand it, USAC requires all teams to put on one race a year, that includes WSBA too. Some teams put their own together (i.e. Second Ascent & the Ballard Crit), some simply provide volunteers/funding/sponsor support in return for adding their name to an event run by a promoter (i.e. Group Health & IVRR) , but every team has to host at least one race a year. Some small teams get away with tagging onto races run by larger teams, but every team has to have their name associated with at least one event.
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Old 04-30-10, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by forrest_m View Post
As I understand it, USAC requires all teams to put on one race a year, that includes WSBA too. Some teams put their own together (i.e. Second Ascent & the Ballard Crit), some simply provide volunteers/funding/sponsor support in return for adding their name to an event run by a promoter (i.e. Group Health & IVRR) , but every team has to host at least one race a year. Some small teams get away with tagging onto races run by larger teams, but every team has to have their name associated with at least one event.
Ah, that makes sense - I couldn't think of what Byrne & Starbucks put on, but they must do something.
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Old 04-30-10, 08:02 PM
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Given that Men 5 and Women 4 don't get the $5 fee, it bothers me less than it would, but it still seems rather quaint. There are no unattached fees here, and there were none in NEBRA, either. There's still no shortage of teams, and no excess of riders who don't want to race with a team. Racing with a team seems to basically be the default, even if it's in name only. The vast majority of races here in TN are organized by teams; in New England there seems to be a greater proportion of races run by independent promoters, but I would still venture to guess that most of the races are put on by local teams.
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Old 05-01-10, 01:02 AM
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Do they no longer require teams to host races? Back in the 90's, our local velodrome started "selling" races to clubs that didn't want to put in the effort and money to make up a crit or road race. The fee made sense to me, since club members pay dues and volunteer to host races.
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Old 05-01-10, 06:42 AM
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As well as races Clubs have carried the mail in Jr development. I think some of the weakness we are seeing in this area is the trend of unattached riders, or small clubs put together so a few masters can race together. Neither group has developing the grass roots sport as part of its mission.
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Old 05-02-10, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by botto View Post
why?
No idea. But the precursor to it was me saying "if you disagree with the unattached rider fee, then don't give money to races that levy them."
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Old 05-02-10, 04:34 PM
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while I have not done many races, Only one had an unattached rider fee, but that was for Cat 5. I didn't really like the idea. I figured the rest of the race fee should be enough. Why would you pay for someone/ team to "volunteer"? You join a team because it helps during the actual racing portion, since the unattached riders are at a disadvantage to place in the money due to no teamates in the first place it just seems like clubs getting greedy.
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Old 05-02-10, 07:04 PM
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From the USA Cycling rule book:

1E6. Sponsorship. Any affiliated road or track club in good standing which has promoted a race open to members of other clubs in the current or previous calendar year shall be eligible for sponsorship.


So technically, you can be a club without promoting a race, but you can't be sponsored by anyone. So that's one reason for the unattached rider fees to promote club membership - so there will be races.
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Old 05-03-10, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Does mabra have a problem with huge amounts of unattached riders filling up fields?
Not in CAT5 (where I'm racing this season). There are a handful, but I don't think it's a problem (the races fill up fast regardless).

What if someone doesn't have the $$ for team dues, kits, etc? Would mabra rather they didn't race at all?
No team dues on my team (shop team, mostly mtn bikers). And I have to buy some sort of kit regardless - either team, or generic, and the team stuff costs the same (or less).

Can't think of a reason not to join a team - even if you're not worried about the competitive benefits, it's nice to have teammates for carpooling, training, social stuff, etc.
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