waterrockets 

You think this might clean up cycling? Is it any cleaner now than during the Festina bust?

gsteinb

No clue, but the alternative certainly won't. And whether it does or doesn't is making some guy uncomfortable by tearing down false gods really a justifiable reason not to try? I think that's sad and pathetic.

Blaireau

Thinking about moral lessons for the kids "this is what happens to liars and cheaters, they get caught and punished eventually" sure beats "it is ok because everybody does it" in my book!

waterrockets 

Oh these guys couldn't give a crap about heroes (none of them idolize Lance or his fight or anything). They were more annoyed with the media because they're going to make this big deal out of it, kind of like the latest attractive college girl to go missing this week, or whatever. The quote that stick in my head from the conversation was along the lines of, "It was a level playing field because all the top guys were doping. Everyone knows it, and parading it around on the Today show doesn't benefit anyone. They'll keep advancing testing on one side and advancing cheating on the other side, and nothing's going to change that."

I don't know, I suppose it's good to plant the "you're eventually gonna get caught" seed into the brains of the up-and-comers, but I just don't see how you eliminate the culture. There's just too much money involved to not take a look at what they can do to stay one step ahead of the system to sell stamps and Discovery Channel commercials.

gsteinb

Then I say burn the ****ing sport to the ground. Leave nothing behind. I'd rather see that.

Grumpy McTrumpy

as long as I can keep doing amateur races.

however if the pro sport implodes then I wonder if it might trickle down to our level, in the form of fewer sponsors for the larger amateur events.

waterrockets 

truth

waterrockets 

truth

El Diablo Rojo

I don't believe that this sport or any professional sport will be completely clean...someone will always try to game the system. What has always bothered me is that when someone is caught rather than offer them some sort of amnesty for revealing their 'dealer' or the DS that set the program up, they punish the athlete. There is no incentive to go any deeper and clean up the sport. The fact that Riis is still a DS when Basso had to take a two year suspension beyond belief...Riis knew, hell he probably set the thing up. I'd like to see the UCI/WADA set something like this up:

4 samples are taken. One set of A/B is sent to two separate labs. One lab is run by the UCI/WADA on lab is independent. If the UCI/WADA lab finds a positive the independent lab also test the sample. If that lab finds a positive then the rider is suspended until the B sample is tested. The tests must take place within 48 hours of the sample being drawn. No more of this six months later a rider is found to have doped BS.

If a rider is proven to have doped then that rider is offered amnesty for revealing/testifying against all those involved with his/her program. Those parties once convicted face lifetime bans.

I've thought that the team should be banned for one year if one of their riders is found to have doped. This would incentivize all teams to have a real and proper doping control system within the team.

Fat Boy

No kidding. Anyone with my gene's is F'd in the sport no matter what drugs they take.

echappist

Ballan is free! at least BMC did the honorable thing, though Ballan lost the opportunity to compete in the the Rond & Paris Roubaix

Ygduf

^^
Convicted for **** in 1992. Imprisoned until 1995. Converted to Islam while in Prison. Bit a guys ear off during his "comeback".

Had a really popular cameo in a 2009 comedy.

Being caught doping is nothing at this time. A few cycling fans would turn away, but LA is popular among millions of people who don't know ANYTHING about cycling. (other than LA is good at it)

SteelerHoo

before judging me, i'm 100% against doping. just looking at this from a detached point of view that is somewhat shaped by my personal experiences. the moral/ethical grounding of the person facing a doping decision enters into the decision, but for many, it is overwhelmed by economic realities.

neither cycling nor any other professional sport will ever be fully clean unless the risk/reward for doping is changed.

as it is, if you are an elite athletic prospect, the rational and logical economic decision (especially in the big money sports football, baseball, international soccer, track & field, etc.) is to dope. if you are on the cusp of making it as a professional or superstardom, you would be foolish not to dope.

return: for borderline athletes, making the team and earning a decent living. for elite athletes, millions and a lifetime of earnings in 5-10 years.

risk: baseball - 30? day suspension, football 4 games (if rookie of the year, re-vote and keep your award), soccer (none yet), cycling (2 years, play by the rules and back in the pro tour)

unless sport is willing to hand down punishments that include durations that negate your ability to make a living and legally enforceable avenues to recoup past earnings, doping is the best economic decision to make.

if you look at the two Polish brothers who doped for 1st and 2nd place in the U-23 cyclocross World Championship, if they knew they could be facing the long sentences they eventually received, it's more likely they would not have doped.

i don't think you can clean up sport based on ethics and moral suasion alone. the payouts are too high.

when i was younger (in high school) doping was a black and white good vs. evil thing. when i went to college, i was a low-talent, injury prone walk on member of a division I track team. some of those athletes, were national class including a future olympic gold medalist.

seeing people with real talent who were on the verge of greatness, you can understand how things get grey as a nudge from doping could push you into a completely different earnings stratosphere.

as far as i know, none of my teammates doped, but we always speculated about top athletes at other more successful programs. if you are rightfully worried about a skewed playing field, you can see how the first step on a slippery slope is taken.

taking ethics out of it, for me, the decision was easy since i didn't have enough talent for doping to close the real or perceived gap.

but if i, or you for that matter, were on the verge of being world class, what would you do? more importantly, what would you do knowing that the risk of detection was extremely low and the punishment wasn't commensurate with the payout? in my view, that's why doping won't end gradually or just because it's made public in a catastrophic fashion.

ZeCanon

Guys (yes, plural) are starting to open up.

KiddSisko

The trickle down will be Di2 on sale for $999!

gsteinb

where can we read about such things?

CyLowe97

Big can of worms?

Voodoo76

Sounds like the shyt is really hitting the fan (or spokes).

Homebrew01

The reward doesn't even need to be very high. M45+ racers dope to win regional amatuer races.

25 years ago, doping didn't cross my mind, and if someone had mentioned it, I would have either laughed it off, or not even really understood the topic.

Now, if I find someone is doping in my race in next months State Crit or Road championships, I won't really be surprised.

guadzilla

Is it just me or is the dumbest f'ing logic on the planet? "Let's not try to make cheating public b/c that isnt going to benefit anyone"? W.T.F?

Hida Yanra

so.... where/when can we start to see some of your journalistic exploits? It sounds like you are seeing interesting stuff, and I know that writing needs to be polished before it gets published, but a rough time expectancy/timeline?

waterrockets 

He wasn't opposed to the public knowing about it. Just that it's stupid for Landis to do this on some level, because there's no plus side. His assertion is that there's always going to be doping, and it just looks like Floyd is taking as many down as he can for no good reason.

waterrockets 

He wasn't opposed to the public knowing about it. Just that it's stupid for Landis to do this on some level, because there's no plus side. His assertion is that there's always going to be doping, and it just looks like Floyd is taking as many down as he can for no good reason.

SteelerHoo

agreed. that's why i wanted to limit it to professional doping. it seems amateurs dope for more complex and difficult to explain personal reasons. for these reasons it may also be harder to deter amateur doping.

ZeCanon

I'm not doing these stories guys, I'm just an intern. This is big honcho editor stuff. I just sit in on the meetings and do lots of background research (like, did those two actually race together at this race at that time?)

Since we are not like many other cycling websites out there, we actually wait to confirm stories before flinging them onto the internet. Patience, everything will go up eventually (unless it's BS).