waterrockets 

Good read there. Thanks to both of you for posting and sharing.

Note that this won't get the tension to be equal DS to NDS, but it will help get the amount of stretch closer between DS to NDS. The wheel will require the same tensions regardless of spoke cross-sectional area, it's just that having thinner spokes on the NDS will cause them to stretch further to reach that tension, and that is a good thing. One disadvantage to this is that the tension progression is lower for thinner spokes as they take bumps, but it will still net out to be a durability benefit, as well as lower weight.

waterrockets 

Good read there. Thanks to both of you for posting and sharing.

Note that this won't get the tension to be equal DS to NDS, but it will help get the amount of stretch closer between DS to NDS. The wheel will require the same tensions regardless of spoke cross-sectional area, it's just that having thinner spokes on the NDS will cause them to stretch further to reach that tension, and that is a good thing. One disadvantage to this is that the tension progression is lower for thinner spokes as they take bumps, but it will still net out to be a durability benefit, as well as lower weight.

cslone

Great info guys, thanks. As a disclaimer, I will not be building these. They will be built by a riding friend of mine, I have about zero idea of spoke characteristics. I'm planning on building a 32/32 CXP set soon enough though, so I'm trying to learn and will be getting more in depth later. Right now, I just want to drop these off and get them back quickly so I can race on them.

Dumb question I'm sure, but with the thinner spokes on the NDS "stretching", does that create a stiffer wheel? I was told a few times to shy away from a 1.5 spoke due to weight and power, "just to be safe".

cslone

I can't find it right now, and I might even get laughed at for bringing this up, but I thought I read once where Lew did some testing and didn't see the advantage of bladed spokes. Case of "we don't use them so our marketing shows they don't work well" maybe?

waterrockets 

No, thinner NDS spokes will make the wheel less stiff, but by a minuscule amount. Given that most rear wheel stiffness comes from spoke count, bracing angle, and DS spoke tension, the stuff on the NDS side will have minimal impact. I think it will make a more durable wheel for you, but I'm interested in counter arguments or experience in the other direction.

Fat Boy

I think you're thinking about Easton. They use round spokes on most of their wheels. They used to have the explanation on their website that went something like this. "Round spokes make a more consistent wheel aero drag as you get cross-winds, so we only use round spokes." Their logic was that round spokes make a little more drag, but you don't have to deal with being pushed around by side winds. I tend to agree with their logic for training wheels. If you're running a real deep carbon wheel, though, then go for the aero improvement of the bladed spokes. It does exist.

cslone

Here's what I ended up with. Wheels were built by our own Nitropowered out of Athens, OH. If anyone needs wheels for a good price, he is the man to go to. Very knowledgeable and quick turnaround. I had a little issue with the hub being a little too wide for the way my dropouts were molded. A .25mm washer on each side fixed it and got me on the road.

24/28 Gigantex 88mm carbon rims
Black Alchemy ELF front and ORC rear hubs in Shimano
Sapim CX Ray Spokes

I raced the rear this weekend(due to the clearance on the the front) and had no problems. Nice and stiff, like I requested.

Thanks for the opinions.

vjp

What do those weigh, all in, with tires and skewers?

vjp

cslone

With my generic small stuff scale, I got 995g for the front and 1495g for the rear. That's with tires mounted and glued, skewers and Ultegra 6600 cassette mounted.

If I back calculate off the weight weenies site, I'm figuring around 1625-1650g built. I'm no weight weenie, so it works for me.