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Good set of hubs/spokes for racing?

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Good set of hubs/spokes for racing?

Old 05-28-10, 09:31 PM
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Good set of hubs/spokes for racing build?

I'm toying with a new wheel build for racing. Did some research last year and forgot all of it by now. I'm looking for a set of 28/28h hubs and strong/stiff spokes. For hubs, I was looking for $250-300, the 7800 DA hubs caught my eye. Anything in that price range better?
As for spokes, I remember reading(I think) that the Sapim Xrays were pretty flimsy. I'm a big guy with big absolute power(and does nothing with it), so I'm looking for some straight gauge stiff spokes.

Thanks for any advice.

Last edited by cslone; 05-29-10 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 05-28-10, 09:59 PM
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CX-rays feel pretty stiff in the wheels I have that are built with them. But it may be the rims more than the spokes. I like the CX-rays but they are expensive.

7800 hubs are nice but use a 10 speed freehub instead of the more common 9 speed splines. So only 10sp Shimano cassettes fit. Sram 10sp cassettes use 9sp splines.
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Old 05-28-10, 11:22 PM
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uh....how 'bout you just buy some ardennes? if you build wheels, when will you ride your others?
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Old 05-29-10, 12:46 AM
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Old 05-29-10, 05:49 AM
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The short of it - I wouldn't worry too much about hubs, and 2.0 db spoke will be nice.

I'm a "selective" equipment freak. I look for things that I feel will give me the function and durability I want, at the lowest price, and skip the stuff that doesn't matter as much. Brake calipers? Who cares? The highest calipers I bought independently were take off Ultegras. They work just as well as Record Skeletons (which came on the bike - I'd never buy them separately). Ceramic bearings? Blah.

I'm jaded when it comes to equipment but I'll pore over rims, crank/BB theories, using Campy levers with Shimano/SRAM derailleurs, and chain guard type things (chain watcher stuff).

In this vein I don't research hubs at all. I've raced on everything from RX100 to DA/Record. I would stay at or above loose bearing Ultegras (RX100 and 105 have oval bearing races), for sealed bearings quality doesn't mean much functionally since the bearings are so similar. I rank Hubs as "if they work, they're fine". This is especially true for a front hub. If it has sealed bearings, if the hub shell is true, then one is no better than another. 10 gram difference? No big deal.

However, I hate steel spacers on axles and such, so I'll go to the level where they get rid of them.

You must be going to a tall profile rim if you're going 28/28 and worried about stiffness? If so, you can consider going 24/28, unless the hole count reduces choices for hubs. I'd personally go for a cheaper, "lower quality" hub with the spoke drilling I want than a higher quality, higher spoke count hub.

If you're looking for ultimate stiffness (track?) then the 28/28 would work great.

For spokes you can use 2.0 db or 2.0 straight. Again, once you hit a 2.0 straight spoke, they all work fine. A 2.0 db spoke (DT Revolution etc) will cut a lot of weight. I've relaced 2.0 straight spoked wheels to "add" 2.0 db. Properly tensioned it didn't make a difference in stiffness.

On the other hand I'll go away from aero spokes on pre-built wheels. When I popped a spoke on a DV46, I relaced with round spokes. I prefer the round spokes because they handle a bit differently in max, out of saddle efforts. After relacing a rear DV46 I realized that this difference really exists just in the front wheel.

cdr
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Old 05-29-10, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche View Post
Psupport Psimet!
My impression is that Psi's wheels are a great price, great quality, but slow turnaround.... otherwise I'd be all over that.. (when I get a jobby-job that is)
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Old 05-29-10, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
My impression is that Psi's wheels are a great price, great quality, but slow turnaround.... otherwise I'd be all over that.. (when I get a jobby-job that is)
Well it seems like you both can't do things immediately then.
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Are they talking about spectators feeding the cyclists? You know, like don't feed the bears?
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Old 05-29-10, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mzeffex View Post
Well it seems like you both can't do things immediately then.
Indeed - but when I had a job, I had the $$$, just not the patience..

If I pay $$ for something I usually want it now, and I'll pay to get it quicker.
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Old 05-29-10, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Indeed - but when I had a job, I had the $$$, just not the patience..

If I pay $$ for something I usually want it now, and I'll pay to get it quicker.
Yup. I can save $30 and wait 3 weeks for an edge 500, or pay the extra and have it immediately. So tempted.
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Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Are they talking about spectators feeding the cyclists? You know, like don't feed the bears?
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Old 05-29-10, 11:20 AM
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Thanks for the opinions.

I'm looking to build a set of the 88mm Gigantex carbon tubulars. Either 24/28 or 28/28, depending on what hubs I can get for a decent price. They will be both crit and TT wheels for now.
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Old 05-29-10, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kudude View Post
uh....how 'bout you just buy some ardennes? if you build wheels, when will you ride your others?
Because I already have some box rims and these are going to be carbon.
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Old 05-30-10, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone View Post
I'm looking to build a set of the 88mm Gigantex carbon tubulars. Either 24/28 or 28/28, depending on what hubs I can get for a decent price. They will be both crit and TT wheels for now.
20f and 24 or 28r. CX-Rays or Aerolites. DA 7900 rear hub >> than 7800. White Industries would be good, but maybe out of your price range.
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Old 05-30-10, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone View Post
Thanks for the opinions.

I'm looking to build a set of the 88mm Gigantex carbon tubulars. Either 24/28 or 28/28, depending on what hubs I can get for a decent price. They will be both crit and TT wheels for now.
With such tall rims you can go lower spoke counts. A 90 mm rim with 24 spokes has spokes spaced about as far apart as a box section 32. I'm being lazy and not measuring my wheels. 24H = pretty good spoke density.
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Old 05-30-10, 03:22 PM
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Old 05-30-10, 08:29 PM
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Okay, looking at this right now.

88mm carbon tubulars 24/24 hole
American Classic Micro 58 front hub
American Classic RD 205 rear hub
brass nipples
Sapim Race or Sapim Strong spokes, looking at a single or double butted spoke. 2x rear

Should be under $800 built.

Anyone have any major issues with a build like this?

Last edited by cslone; 05-30-10 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 05-30-10, 08:35 PM
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http://stores.justridingalong.biz/-s...set/Detail.bok

this guy does all my bike maintenance stuff. call and ask for travis. you can thank me when you get them.

i'm on velocity aeroheads, sapim cx-ray spokes, white industries h2/h3 hubs, they're fantastic all purpose wheels.

pm me with ?
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Old 05-30-10, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
My impression is that Psi's wheels are a great price, great quality, but slow turnaround.... otherwise I'd be all over that.. (when I get a jobby-job that is)
Slowly changing. Growing pains.

I've pumped out close to 300 wheels in the last 12 months. I don't spec anything and I don't build 2 that are the same. Anyone who does is building a wheel for someone else - not you.
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Old 05-31-10, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone View Post
Anyone have any major issues with a build like this?
Everything, I guess. Crappy hubs, should be 4-8 fewer spokes in the front than rear, brass nipples?, and use aero spokes with aero rims.
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Old 05-31-10, 05:33 AM
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I'm pretty big so super low spoke counts scare me, I've read pretty good reviews on the AC hubs, and I've always been told that if you're going to ride in wet or nasty conditions to skip aluminum nipples. :shrug: Guess not?

Aero spokes I'll buy, but I can't imagine it makes that much of a difference. What are we talking, well under a watt a wheel I would think?
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Old 05-31-10, 08:12 AM
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And while we're getting technical, what makes a "good" hub, i.e. King, White Ind, Alchemy, Tune, better than say an Ultegra, Velocity, AC hub?
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Old 05-31-10, 04:39 PM
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I like building/working on brass nipples, riding aluminum ones. Brass is more durable for sure. Use alum front or non drive side. Brass drive side, debatable in the front. The non drive side will have the lowest tension spokes.

AC hubs - hubs are hubs. I don't know them from anything else, but I'd look for the widest flanges for lateral rigidity. Meaning flanges which are wide apart, not large flange hubs (although that helps too). I think that folks like Zipp etc have their hubs made by other companies - no issues there. I know HED makes a lot of stuff in Taiwan, basically "house brand", but they're fine for normal, regular use.

cdr

Aero spokes - I think they're lighter usually. Go 2.0 db, like DT revolutions, that's my "best bang for buck" choice. Super durable too.
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Old 06-01-10, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone View Post
I'm pretty big so super low spoke counts scare me, I've read pretty good reviews on the AC hubs, and I've always been told that if you're going to ride in wet or nasty conditions to skip aluminum nipples. :shrug: Guess not?

Aero spokes I'll buy, but I can't imagine it makes that much of a difference. What are we talking, well under a watt a wheel I would think?
Brass nipples are a good idea if you live in a corrosive marine environment (like Florida or Hawaii). With aluminum use a marine anti-seize and they should be good everywhere else.

If aero spokes don't matter, then neither do the carbon rims... it is in the same ballpark.
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Old 06-01-10, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by cslone View Post
And while we're getting technical, what makes a "good" hub, i.e. King, White Ind, Alchemy, Tune, better than say an Ultegra, Velocity, AC hub?
Good properties of hubs are light weight, good geometry, smooth, tight tolerances, stiff, durable, etc. AC hubs are not top quality, and have a very narrow flange spacing in the rear which I don't like. If you are getting them real cheap, then maybe.

You can see my thoughts on some of the higher-end hubs here: http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/view...dc81c45b8c36ed
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Old 06-01-10, 05:01 AM
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Chris,
Read this
http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/view...hp?f=65&t=6940

My offer we talked about on Sunday is still on the table if you decide that route
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Old 06-02-10, 03:39 AM
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Use DT revolution, they are excellent spokes and save a lot of weight. But use DT Competition or even straight gauge on the drive side- that way the tension is nearly the same on each side, you get a stronger wheel and it stays true really well.
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