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I'm gonna be hurting...

Old 06-30-10, 12:10 PM
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I'm gonna be hurting...

I thought that since I had a good placing in my first cat 4 race two weeks ago that I would soon become accustomed to it and be competitive in the 4's. I was afraid that I would struggle for a while but eventually learn how to adjust to racing in a new category.

Wrong.

Now after the race this past weekend it seems I need to quickly get ready to race in the 3's I am nervous as hell now because I am already past the amount of points I need to upgrade to cat 3 and I am 2 points away from the automatic upgrade. Part of me says that since I did well, I should be able to at least survive in the 3's but the other part says I am going to get shelled and get spit out of the pack. Either would be fine, it is going to let me see where I am with my training.

Anybody else run into something similar to this? I have pretty much decided to stay a 4 for one more weekend for the race this weekend. One plus side to this (and it is a huge plus) is that I got my first win and it just so happened to be in the biggest and most important race in my calendar! I just want to see if this happened to others and how they reacted with the situation. If possible tell how quickly you adjusted to racing in the new category.

Thanks! and sorry for the long post.
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Old 06-30-10, 12:17 PM
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oh to have your problems....... ;-)
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Old 06-30-10, 12:39 PM
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So how many races have you done as a 4? Sounds like you're moving up quick, nothing wrong with that.

I just got to the 3's, and two races later what they say is true: not much faster, just smoother, and the surges/sprints are more intense. People ride closer together but you'll get used to it.

You'll do fine. The phrase I kept hearing was a good 4 will make a good 3, and so far it seems to be true.

Go for it. Resist the temptation (if you have it) to sandbag and clean up in the 4's, it ain't worth it.
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Old 06-30-10, 12:43 PM
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depending on the course, the conditions, the field, time of year and various other factors, I can place top 10 or get shelled early... I'd expect the same to be true for you.

don't worry, just race.
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Old 06-30-10, 12:46 PM
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IMO being competitive in the 4s is no guarantee that you will be competitive in the 3s, but it's a pretty good bet that you won't be shelled. I can't speak for other areas but here the people who are consistently competitive in the 3s are pretty much nearly 2s anyway (and usually seem to go on and do ok in 1/2 fields), but it doesn't take a whole lot to at least hang in a 3s race.
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Old 06-30-10, 01:09 PM
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Thanks for the replies, I have done 2 cat 4 races. The first one was the championship race where I got 2nd and then my target race this past weekend that I won. Since these are two big races, the points were also large. I don't plan on sandbagging at all, I am all for bettering myself even if it means getting my ass handed to me a few times. It just seems a little iffy only doing 2 races as a 4 and then going on to the 3's. I am going to do one more race and that is probably about it before moving on.
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Old 06-30-10, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mobike_moexcite View Post
Thanks for the replies, I have done 2 cat 4 races. The first one was the championship race where I got 2nd and then my target race this past weekend that I won. Since these are two big races, the points were also large. I don't plan on sandbagging at all, I am all for bettering myself even if it means getting my ass handed to me a few times. It just seems a little iffy only doing 2 races as a 4 and then going on to the 3's. I am going to do one more race and that is probably about it before moving on.
I think you may be looking at the wrong points. The maximum upgrade points you can get from winning a road race is 10 and the maximum for a crit is 7. You can't possibly have more than 20 points after 2 races. Any USAC ranking or series points are different.
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Old 06-30-10, 01:21 PM
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Even if they were both road races the most points you could have for a win and 2nd place would be 18, you need 20 to go from a 4-3, maybe I am missing something but I don't see how you have enough points to upgrade after only 2 races. However, you are obviously going to be out of the 4's very soon. You'll be fine in the 3's, don't sweat it.
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Old 06-30-10, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
I think you may be looking at the wrong points. The maximum upgrade points you can get from winning a road race is 10 and the maximum for a crit is 7. You can't possibly have more than 20 points after 2 races. Any USAC ranking or series points are different.
Ah, that explains things.

OP, here's what you want to look at: http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580 (scroll down for the points tables)

You still sound like a strong 4, so don't worry too much and keep racing.
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Old 06-30-10, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
I think you may be looking at the wrong points. The maximum upgrade points you can get from winning a road race is 10 and the maximum for a crit is 7. You can't possibly have more than 20 points after 2 races. Any USAC ranking or series points are different.
I was thinking this at first too but next to my name it has 15 points for the second race. It is our state's premier race I guess so it is a big deal. I understand what you are saying though because crits should only be a total of maybe 7 points for 1st place. There very well could be another use for this number but it is in the same place as the points I have been getting. Some people I ride with also mentioned to me that winning that race is like an automatic upgrade in itself. Are there special races that are really worth this much?
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Old 06-30-10, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mobike_moexcite View Post
I was thinking this at first too but next to my name it has 15 points for the second race. It is our state's premier race I guess so it is a big deal. I understand what you are saying though because crits should only be a total of maybe 7 points for 1st place. There very well could be another use for this number but it is in the same place as the points I have been getting. Some people I ride with also mentioned to me that winning that race is like an automatic upgrade in itself. Are there special races that are really worth this much?
No, you are looking at some kind of ranking points. NOT the same as upgrade points. Unless your association is not part of USAC and does their own upgrade process.
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Old 06-30-10, 02:41 PM
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Maybe not quite the same thing, but I just moved up to the 3/4 group from the 4/5 group in our weekly training crits. I didn't get shelled, but I did find it a lot more of a challenge. There was a difference in the proximity and the surges. I'll be staying with the 3/4's as I'm learning more there. I probably won't win any more races this season tho.
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Old 06-30-10, 08:05 PM
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Alright I looked into it more and you were all correct. I was wrong, my friends had told me I could upgrade just because of the size and importance of the race. This is not a bad thing I guess, I have a chance to do my first stage race in 2 weeks and this way I will still be a 4. So I have 13 of the 20 points needed for an upgrade, well better get back to work on it! I'm a little less nervous now and I am glad I hadn't taken the chance to upgrade with only 2 cat 4 races under my belt. That may not have turned out so well. I don't plan on sandbagging but now I don't have to worry about that. Thanks for the help, I am not sure what that number is anyways...
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Old 06-30-10, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gbot View Post
Maybe not quite the same thing, but I just moved up to the 3/4 group from the 4/5 group in our weekly training crits. I didn't get shelled, but I did find it a lot more of a challenge. There was a difference in the proximity and the surges. I'll be staying with the 3/4's as I'm learning more there. I probably won't win any more races this season tho.
Those were always confusing to determine how difficult the race could be. I always tried to train as if I was racing the 4's so I could be ready for anything. Don't tell yourself you can't win any races though, I always got close and thought I would never get a win but then I finally did. It just takes determination
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Old 06-30-10, 08:14 PM
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With so many different kinds of "points", it's not surprising some people get confused. Good that you got it sorted out, I'm sure you will upgrade soon enough.
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Old 06-30-10, 08:41 PM
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Haha yea it sure takes a load off but I am still excited to get my upgrade soon possibly.
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Old 06-30-10, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mobike_moexcite View Post
Alright I looked into it more and you were all correct. I was wrong, my friends had told me I could upgrade just because of the size and importance of the race. This is not a bad thing I guess, I have a chance to do my first stage race in 2 weeks and this way I will still be a 4. So I have 13 of the 20 points needed for an upgrade, well better get back to work on it! I'm a little less nervous now and I am glad I hadn't taken the chance to upgrade with only 2 cat 4 races under my belt. That may not have turned out so well. I don't plan on sandbagging but
now I don't have to worry about that. Thanks for the help, I am not sure what that number is anyways..
.
Do places really auto-upgrade people based on the "importance" of one race? Or is that more confusion?
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Old 07-03-10, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mattm View Post
Do places really auto-upgrade people based on the "importance" of one race? Or is that more confusion?
I'm not really sure but I know that doing well in an important/large race will be considered when looking at upgrading. I could be wrong though, it just makes sense I guess and I have heard people talking about it.
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Old 07-03-10, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mobike_moexcite View Post
I'm not really sure but I know that doing well in an important/large race will be considered when looking at upgrading. I could be wrong though, it just makes sense I guess and I have heard people talking about it.
The officials have a lot of discretion and may consider the quality of the race and the field when deciding marginal cases.
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Old 07-03-10, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
The officials have a lot of discretion and may consider the quality of the race and the field when deciding marginal cases.
That pretty much sums up what I was saying, nicely put! I won my second cat 4 race today too so I'm going to ask about the upgrade. I might hold on to this category for one more weekend if I can though.
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Old 07-16-10, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mobike_moexcite View Post
I am not sure what that number is anyways...
Those are USAC ranking points so you can see just how studly you are (or are not) here. Oft confused with upgrade points.
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Old 07-16-10, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by blaronn View Post
Those are USAC ranking points so you can see just how studly you are (or are not) here. Oft confused with upgrade points.
Ah thanks, I have been to that page before but did not know how that number system lined up with the upgrade points. That explains why bigger races have more points available to win.
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