guadzilla

This is going to sound very strange but I thought I'd risk general ridicule and ask anyway.

On weekdays, I really have one route to ride - it is a loop and I go with the wind on the way out and against the wind on the way back. I have noticed that is MUCH harder to maintain the same power going against the wind.

Take today - my ride was supposed to a tempo ride: 60 min @ 180-200W with some sprints thrown in. On the way over, maintaining 200W was quite easy. Legs felt good, HR nice and low... felt great. On the way back, it was a struggle to even maintain 180W - the RPE felt a lot higher. This wasnt b/c I fried my legs. I got back and had around 10 min left, so I did a shorter loop. Again, with the headwind, even 220W was easy to hold. Turn around and the RPE just went a whole lot higher.

And it isnt just today. I have noticed this over the past month or so. Wtf? Power is power, right - and as long as I am putting out the same power, the perceived effort should be more or less the same. What gives, any idea?

TIA,
V.

king-tony

Look at your cadence as well and see if it dropped a lot into the wind. Also, you could just be tired on the way back. Finally, make sure your power meter is zeroed at least 20 minutes into the ride. If you are leaving from a garage or car and zero right before the ride, you will likely see some drift for the first part of the ride.

guadzilla

Looking at the cadence, this is what happens: I am spinning at 100rpm at what feels like a tempo effort (180-200W) and when I look at the PT, it reads 150W. So then I shift up a gear in order to get the power up, now my RPE feels higher than tempo and my cadence does drop to around 95.

It isnt fatigue - for example, today I did 1 long loop and a short loop. I struggled on the way back but when I turned back the second time, I had to ease up in order to stay under 200W. Dont think it would be the PT, either - I do a 20 min warmup, and like I said, I noticed it on the second loop as well.

It makes no sense - I noticed this a month ago and initially thought it was fatigue or something. But it has been happening consistently. I can only think of 2 theories:
1/ The pschological impact of the headwind makes me subconsciously change my pedaling technique and try to use force instead of spinning (seems a little weak, but it is a possibility)
2/ The wind is actually a crosswind, coming in at an angle. And resisting the orthogonal component of that force (ie, the bit at right angles to the direction of motion) adds to the RPE, but doesnt show up in the PT

Has anyone else also had something like this happen?

V.

guadzilla

No one else has noticed this? Doh!

So Many Roads

man up, nancy.

tallmantim

I have noticed the opposite - I do intervals on a velodrome and my power goes up when going against the wind and I find it harder to maintain (due to needing to up cadence) when riding with a tailwind.

I do the intervals in one gear, so cadence is changing all the time on a loop.

I would think that cadence is likely your issue too - find the point where your cadence is 100 and you are putting out 200W the same as your other leg of effort.

guadzilla

Heh... with my measly watts, manning up is going to take a long, long time

Tim - thanks for that. I'll check my cadence issues a little more carefully.

V.

Grumpy McTrumpy

I prefer to push a bigger gear/lower cadence into a headwind.

hammy56

the correct term is 'HTFU'.

tombailey

Just checking that you have a hub- or crank-based PM, rather than a wind-based one.

Brian Ratliff

How about your position on your bike? Are you getting into an aero tuck or something going into the headwind that is less efficient than your "normal" position?

Otherwise, a watt is a watt is a watt. In a headwind, you just go slower for a given power output.

waterrockets 

Gusts can mess with my pacing a bit, but you should be able to maintain in a fairly steady headwind. I don't see why RPE would be higher with the same cadence and power as you normally use. That means crank torque and pedal force are the same, and tells me it's largely in the "P" portion of RPE.

Regarding gusts, I gear for the 2/3 toughest winds, so I'll be at 95rpm or so (my normaly happy place) when the gusts are at 2/3 peak. When they let up, I just keep the same gear and take the cadence way up as necessary. If I get a long stretch at higher RPM, I'll up-shift .

merlinextraligh

I'm with Tallmantim, it's easier to keep you power output up into the wind, than with a tailwind; a bit like how it's easier to keep your power up uphill, rather than dowhill.

Strong tailwind and you're cruising at a nice speed with less effort, you've got to push yourself to keep the watts up.

In to a headwind, just maintaining what feels like an acceptable pace will require more power, and thus it's mentally easier to keep the watts up (even though you're going slower.)

The opposite doesn't make sense to me, unless its just a mental hatred of headwinds that demoralizes you.

gregf83 

I agree it's hard to keep the power up downhill but downwind I normally increase power. I just find it's more enjoyable to ride downwind and going fast is fun.

I often do 5 min intervals back and forth on a stretch of road that always has wind. My legs don't feel any different in either direction but I seem to have more trouble breathing into a strong headwind.

guadzilla

Yep. It is a Powertap Pro+ with an Edge 500 head unit.

Not any more than usual (I usually spend 2/3rd on the hoods or tops, and 1/3rd on the drops both ways). That is what is so puzzling.

Possibly. I actually was convinced initially that it was the "P" portion as well and that I needed to grow a pair. But today I was getting lactic burn at 150-160W fer chrissakes. I can ride @ 150W all day.

I think you may be on to something with the gusts - it is very gusty and comes in at an angle.

I find that I am constantly surging back and forth at power that is a lot higher or a lot lower than what I am targeting. For example, today's ride was meant to be at 150-175W and I was trying to hold 165. I kept finding myself either at 100-130W or 190-210W. That seems like it would be related to the wind picking up and easing off. And the repeated surges in power could also explain why I get tired more quickly - it is harder than just maintaining a steady pace.

Man, no disagreements about the mental hatred. I suck at climbing but there is a perverse sense of satisfaction you get when you climb. You are going UP. Headwinds - f'k them and the ocean that begot them.

I think WR's explanation about gusts seems to be most likely cause - what do you guys think?

V.

Brian Ratliff

Another thing that might be happening is you are letting off when you are staring at your computer on the headwind leg. Kind of a confirmation bias at work. Maybe do your riding with the numbers covered up and examine the data later.

bdcheung

Unless the headwind is 100% constant and consistent, the perceived exertion is going to be higher because the resistance is constantly changing.

guadzilla

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. Brian, I'll give it a shot with the PT numbers hidden one day and see if that changes anything. And yeah, I do think that the constantly-changing wind intensity is also affecting the intensity.

Glad to know it isnt in my head

tallmantim

I think that makes the most sense - you can't easily keep the same power output and trying to maintain it during a gust would see your power go to say +150% FTP -> 80% FTP -> 120% FTP etc - much more draining than if you are fighting against a steady wind.