How do you justify the risks of racing?
07-26-10, 08:33 AM
#27
**** that
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As has been implied by several responses, it isn't how risk-adverse you are, but how risk-adverse the other racers are. As an old-man Cat 4, I can race Masters and get shelled, or race Cat 4 and get bumped and bashed all day and finish in the top 20. I was in the 50+ Masters at Hilltowns on Saturday, and we started 10 minutes after the Cat 4. We dodged cat 4 bodies, their attendants, their police cars, and their ambulances for the first 20 miles (after that there is a little hill that takes care of the bunching). I went down the steep hill in the Masters this year and never felt safer or better, at 50mph. Master's racers just don't take the stupid risks, the jamming into places that don't fit them, and the sketchy passes that seem to mar every open cat 4 race I have been in. Of course, it is hard to actually stay in a Masters field around here, but my brief experiences have been fun.
^
this is why I race M40 or M35 instead of 4. I have been told it's a mistake, since I get my ass kicked by Nat'l champs and World champs, but I hate the 4s, and I still do a fair share of races in the 4s and don't really finish well enough to get upgrade points yet.
this is why I race M40 or M35 instead of 4. I have been told it's a mistake, since I get my ass kicked by Nat'l champs and World champs, but I hate the 4s, and I still do a fair share of races in the 4s and don't really finish well enough to get upgrade points yet.
Then you can stop complaining about sketchy cat 4's...
If racing wasn't risky it wouldn't be worth doing, but it's not that 'risky' - I got hurt a lot more skateboarding.
07-26-10, 09:02 AM
#29
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knock on wood before i say this but i've been in a handful of accidents in my time, a couple of them requiring an ER visit, and a couple that probably SHOULD have resulted in an ER visit, and they were all commuting, not racing nor training/group riding related.
07-26-10, 09:33 AM
#30
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Having said that, most crashes happen in non-sprinting situations. The one that really decked me (first broken bones) was in a straight, at the front of the field (I was sitting 4th wheel). It was intentional - not aimed at me, but it would have taken out whoever was sitting where I was - and it was normally something that wouldn't happen (blatant move that would take out at least one rider - in the case of my crash, it took out maybe 8 guys, with another suffering multiple broken ribs, as well as road rash and equipment damage).
Most crashes occur when people lose focus for a moment - at quiet times or when "nothing is happening", like on straights, non-technical courses, or when going slow on a climb. Or mechanical things, usually at lower/beginner categories, like improperly installed chains or tire.
It's very unusual to have someone intentionally do something and cause a crash.
07-26-10, 09:43 AM
#31
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07-26-10, 10:10 AM
#32
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I started out the year as a cat 5 and moved up to a 4 after 10 races (including 3 skills clinics). I've raced 12 races so far and out of all 12 I've only seen 2 races go clean with no crashes. I've been involved in 2 crashes, both times I got caught behind other people doing stupid sh*t.
I took a break in May due to an intense summer class. I was afraid to crash again and miss classes. Now that this class is almost over I really want to get a couple more races in before the season ends but I'm having a hard time justifying the risks. My first crash kept me off the bike for almost 3 weeks with a sprained wrist and bruised hip (plus all the road rash just plain sucks).
I took a break in May due to an intense summer class. I was afraid to crash again and miss classes. Now that this class is almost over I really want to get a couple more races in before the season ends but I'm having a hard time justifying the risks. My first crash kept me off the bike for almost 3 weeks with a sprained wrist and bruised hip (plus all the road rash just plain sucks).
Join a racing club and get info on the different races here in NorCal and ride with experienced racers. I discuss which races I am going to enter with my coach and we discuss safety, race tactics and etc. All this can help to create a safety margin which then assists in managing risk.
If you are not a member, join the NCNCA discussion board. We have been dealing with a lot of crashes in Cat 4 this year and there was significant discussion on how to improve safety in racing. Some information was useful.
Finally, some riders just should not race in mass start races. They do not have the skills. If that is the case, then it is TTs and hill climbs.
07-26-10, 11:20 AM
#33
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There is no way to justify a broken bone, concussion or a debilitating injury. One can make choices and manage risks by creating a margin. For racing, pick races where you have a competitive advantage or eliminate other riders or speed. One can race TTs and hill climbs and reduce the risk to riding on the open road. If you want mass start head to head competition then you have to learn to read the pack several moves ahead and always "have a plan". If the race does not go as you thought accept that. For example, do not sprint for 50th place in a big pack. Know which races have more crashes than others and know where the crashes are likely to occur. There is a local race that is prone to crashes. As I remember, it is the Wente Criterium. Do not enter that race or if you do, know where the problem corners are.
Join a racing club and get info on the different races here in NorCal and ride with experienced racers. I discuss which races I am going to enter with my coach and we discuss safety, race tactics and etc. All this can help to create a safety margin which then assists in managing risk.
If you are not a member, join the NCNCA discussion board. We have been dealing with a lot of crashes in Cat 4 this year and there was significant discussion on how to improve safety in racing. Some information was useful.
Finally, some riders just should not race in mass start races. They do not have the skills. If that is the case, then it is TTs and hill climbs.
So I'll probably just finish out the season training with my team. There's an omnium in September that I'm considering, other than that I'll probably just work on a new training plan for next season where I can hopefully be more competitive rather than just pack filler (where all the stupid sh*t always seems to happen).
07-26-10, 11:22 AM
#34
Tiocfáidh ár Lá
As far as racing goes, if you think you are going to crash then you are doing it wrong. Most crashes are really not too bad. Sometimes people break bones but typically it's bumps, bruises, road rash, and bashed up equipment. Also most of your crashes will happen in training and may involve, from my personal experience, collision with cars. So if you are afraid of racing then your should really be scared of training.
07-26-10, 11:32 AM
#35
Genetics have failed me
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07-26-10, 11:38 AM
#36
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I was just talking about our district championship crit with someone yesterday, and he remarked that it seemed like a really unsafe course. I replied that the course was fine, it's just because it was full of people doing stupid stuff to try to win the championship...
07-26-10, 12:39 PM
#39
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Very well put, thank you. I do consider myself a safe rider, unfortunately like others have mentioned I can't control the actions of the other riders. It seems that some of these guys completely lose their common sense when racing, I just don't get it.
So I'll probably just finish out the season training with my team. There's an omnium in September that I'm considering, other than that I'll probably just work on a new training plan for next season where I can hopefully be more competitive rather than just pack filler (where all the stupid sh*t always seems to happen).
So I'll probably just finish out the season training with my team. There's an omnium in September that I'm considering, other than that I'll probably just work on a new training plan for next season where I can hopefully be more competitive rather than just pack filler (where all the stupid sh*t always seems to happen).
07-26-10, 12:55 PM
#40
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Seriously, I have to agree that my ride to work everyday is probably riskier than my Saturday race. The drive to the race is probably riskier than the race itself. Plus, I spent my 20s putting a lot of dangerous chemicals (mostly ethanol) in my system, which lead to even more dangerous behaviors and situtations. In contrast, I now happily eat and drink like a monk the 99% of the time I'm not riding my bike. Bike racing, for me at least, is as addictive as booze and drugs but a lot less likely to put me in jail, hospital, divorce court, or bankruptcy.
07-26-10, 01:05 PM
#41
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I just try to solo off the front and take most of the risk out of the equation. That did not work too well in my last race.
07-26-10, 02:56 PM
#42
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I've only crashed in one race, year before last, when I was very new to it. Just missed a corner and bashed my leg on a tree. Had more falls in training, but nothing serious.
But your race league sounds lethal! A crash nearly every time? That's crazy, have they put all the inexperienced riders together just for a laugh?
I don't justify anything. I love to race, and I love to win, and many things that seemed dangerous when I was new to it seem normal now. Like descending really fast or riding really close, it's necessary, so you do it.
But your race league sounds lethal! A crash nearly every time? That's crazy, have they put all the inexperienced riders together just for a laugh?
I don't justify anything. I love to race, and I love to win, and many things that seemed dangerous when I was new to it seem normal now. Like descending really fast or riding really close, it's necessary, so you do it.
07-26-10, 04:06 PM
#44
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Evaluate risk based on the hidden disaster:
1) a bike race, you might crash with fairly high frequency, but each crash is probably not going to do much damage. Bruises and road rash is the norm. Maybe something broken once in a blue moon. Death, yea, it happens, but not often enough to mention. The momentum of a 200lb package hitting the ground at 20-30mph just isn't enough to do a huge amount of damage. Plus, races are on courses with officials and medics, so if something happens, you're attended to quickly.
2) contrast racing with bike commuting. Crashes are more rare, but you get to add the momentum of a two ton car going 40-60mph. Broken bones are the norm and death is relatively common in a car-bike crash.
3) contrast the above two activities with driving. Crashes are still more rare because of the organization of the road, but now you get the momentum of two, 2-ton cars each going 50+ mph, sometimes in opposite directions. Car crashes just f- the human body up. Death is a pretty common outcome of a car crash.
So, per this perspective, our usual risk calculation is pretty backward. We think nothing of an activity where death is common if stuff goes wrong, just because it is rare that stuff goes wrong (but then, think of how many miles you will drive in your lifetime), and we freeze up at the thought of a tumble and some scrapes in a bike race once or twice a year.
1) a bike race, you might crash with fairly high frequency, but each crash is probably not going to do much damage. Bruises and road rash is the norm. Maybe something broken once in a blue moon. Death, yea, it happens, but not often enough to mention. The momentum of a 200lb package hitting the ground at 20-30mph just isn't enough to do a huge amount of damage. Plus, races are on courses with officials and medics, so if something happens, you're attended to quickly.
2) contrast racing with bike commuting. Crashes are more rare, but you get to add the momentum of a two ton car going 40-60mph. Broken bones are the norm and death is relatively common in a car-bike crash.
3) contrast the above two activities with driving. Crashes are still more rare because of the organization of the road, but now you get the momentum of two, 2-ton cars each going 50+ mph, sometimes in opposite directions. Car crashes just f- the human body up. Death is a pretty common outcome of a car crash.
So, per this perspective, our usual risk calculation is pretty backward. We think nothing of an activity where death is common if stuff goes wrong, just because it is rare that stuff goes wrong (but then, think of how many miles you will drive in your lifetime), and we freeze up at the thought of a tumble and some scrapes in a bike race once or twice a year.
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Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 07-26-10 at 04:09 PM.
07-27-10, 10:22 AM
#45
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07-27-10, 11:50 AM
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Before I was racing I was fat, had high cholesterol, and my blood pressure was creeping up.
After I was racing I had road rash, stitches, a slight knee and shoulder injury.
No justification necessary. Now if I can just convince the rest of my family the knee and shoulder injury really was slight.
After I was racing I had road rash, stitches, a slight knee and shoulder injury.
No justification necessary. Now if I can just convince the rest of my family the knee and shoulder injury really was slight.
08-03-10, 10:18 PM
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