Notices
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing We set this forum up for our members to discuss their experiences in either pro or amateur racing, whether they are the big races, or even the small backyard races. Don't forget to update all the members with your own race results.

Braking in crits.

Old 07-29-10, 08:35 PM
  #1  
msh1283
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Braking in crits.

Alright, I'm a weak cat 5 rider. I'm usually stuck in the back 1/2 to 1/3rd of the pack, where things are usually slowing down in corners. In my last two races, I've had two guys shout at me to stop braking so much before corners. I'm staying right on the wheel in front of me, not letting gaps open up. What exactly am I supposed to do? Seems like the only alternative to me is going way off my line, which is stupid. Sitting up doesn't slow me enough, what option do I have besides braking?

Yes, I know. Ride closer to the front and I won't have to worry about it. I'll get there. In the mean time, I'd like to figure out how to avoid pissing people off.
msh1283 is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 08:40 PM
  #2  
sfwhiteman
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by msh1283 View Post
I'm staying right on the wheel in front of me, not letting gaps open up.
If that is actually true, then you can probably ignore the complainers. Keep in mind, it's a bunch of cat 5's doing the yelling.
sfwhiteman is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 08:43 PM
  #3  
jdott
100% car free
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 218

Bikes: 2008 LeMond Tete de Course

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
They're complaining about what's making you mad anyway. You just happen to be the closest rider, so you catch the scorn. Brush it off. Just be smooth - sudden movements rightfully make people mad. Move up a couple spots every chance you get, it is so much easier near (but not at) the front. But then they'll yell at you for not working enough.
jdott is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 08:44 PM
  #4  
lovestoride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ohio
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
hmm. i was at a crit two days ago where for every corner everyone felt like braking (or at least the couple of guys in front of me). it always surprises me how little people trust their tires, especially people who race crits on semi closed roads (a little traffic on a 2 mile loop, nothing to worry about)
lovestoride is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 09:05 PM
  #5  
jmsmke
Laying down the V
 
jmsmke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Depends on what you mean by 'braking' If you are just feathering the rear a little to scrub off a bit of speed that is totally normal and ignore the idiots behind you.

However, I've seen guys (and did this a bit myself when I started) who accelerate way too hard before the corner and then have to grab hard on the brakes to avoid running into the person in front of them. Its possible to do this and still not let a gap open up but its not very smooth or predictable riding which may cause some people to justifiably yell.
jmsmke is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 09:13 PM
  #6  
lovestoride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ohio
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jmsmke View Post
Depends on what you mean by 'braking' If you are just feathering the rear a little to scrub off a bit of speed that is totally normal and ignore the idiots behind you.

However, I've seen guys (and did this a bit myself when I started) who accelerate way too hard before the corner and then have to grab hard on the brakes to avoid running into the person in front of them. Its possible to do this and still not let a gap open up but its not very smooth or predictable riding which may cause some people to justifiably yell.
sorry was not clear enough. i ment like really using the brakes front and rear and a good amount of pressure. i knew that the turns could be taken at very high speeds. i had an off day and was shot out the back and had to tt it to get back to the group and i did not need to brake once during the entire solo effort. it was really only surprising because the people at the ride/race are experienced racers but o well nothing bad happened next time im just going to stay right at the front.
lovestoride is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 10:28 PM
  #7  
tallmantim
Senior Member
 
tallmantim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lovestoride View Post
sorry was not clear enough. i ment like really using the brakes front and rear and a good amount of pressure. i knew that the turns could be taken at very high speeds. i had an off day and was shot out the back and had to tt it to get back to the group and i did not need to brake once during the entire solo effort. it was really only surprising because the people at the ride/race are experienced racers but o well nothing bad happened next time im just going to stay right at the front.
I found if tailgunning you can trust the accordion effect if you know the corner - hence you can drop the wheel in front leading up to the corner, carry more speed through it then gun it a little to reattach.

That way, you are:

1. Not braking hard to hold a wheel
2. Conserving energy
3. Potentially stressing the energy reserves of the guys following behind you
4. Less likely to stack from someone rear ending you through grabbing a handful of brakes.
tallmantim is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 10:30 PM
  #8  
mkadam68
Senior Member
 
mkadam68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Eastern Tennessee.
Posts: 3,693

Bikes: 2012 MotorHouse road bike. No. You can't get one.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by lovestoride View Post
sorry was not clear enough. i ment like really using the brakes front and rear and a good amount of pressure. i knew that the turns could be taken at very high speeds. i had an off day and was shot out the back and had to tt it to get back to the group and i did not need to brake once during the entire solo effort. it was really only surprising because the people at the ride/race are experienced racers but o well nothing bad happened next time im just going to stay right at the front.
If it's a cat-5 race, then this is not true.

It's alright to brake a bit. Just don't be locking up your wheels or slowing suddenly. Try letting a small gap develop before the corner, then as those in front of you are slowing, your momentum allows you to catch up and close the gap without pedaling.

You could also go off-line a bit. Don't follow the wheel exactly, so when your speed allow you to pass them, you don't hit them. Then as they accelerate back up to speed, easily, gently get back on their wheel. Then, you've conserved your energy while they wasted theirs.
mkadam68 is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 10:31 PM
  #9  
lovestoride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ohio
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mkadam68 View Post
If it's a cat-5 race, then this is not true.

It's alright to brake a bit. Just don't be locking up your wheels or slowing suddenly. Try letting a small gap develop before the corner, then as those in front of you are slowing, your momentum allows you to catch up and close the gap without pedaling.

You could also go off-line a bit. Don't follow the wheel exactly, so when your speed allow you to pass them, you don't hit them. Then as they accelerate back up to speed, easily, gently get back on their wheel. Then, you've conserved your energy while they wasted theirs.
not a cat 5 race. more of a cat3/4. also the braking was to go from 30 to about 27 so it wasnt like we were going from 20 to 15. it was more just no body wanted to cause any problems in the corners.

Last edited by lovestoride; 07-29-10 at 10:36 PM.
lovestoride is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 10:44 PM
  #10  
crimsonblood
Broken
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
little confusion going on here.. lovestoride managed to hijack. Some of these people are still trying to reply to the OP
crimsonblood is offline  
Old 07-29-10, 11:11 PM
  #11  
mattm
**** that
 
mattm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CALI
Posts: 15,393
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1092 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 25 Posts
OP: You could let a little gap open up before the corner, then close it in the turn by not braking as much.

And when you do brake, just feather them a bit.
__________________
cat 1.

my race videos
mattm is offline  
Old 07-30-10, 05:30 AM
  #12  
jmsmke
Laying down the V
 
jmsmke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by crimsonblood View Post
little confusion going on here.. lovestoride managed to hijack. Some of these people are still trying to reply to the OP
Correct...My post was intended for the OP, not lovestoride

Originally Posted by lovestoride View Post
not a cat 5 race. more of a cat3/4. also the braking was to go from 30 to about 27 so it wasnt like we were going from 20 to 15. it was more just no body wanted to cause any problems in the corners.
"More of"? so your not quite sure what cat the race was?
jmsmke is offline  
Old 07-30-10, 06:46 AM
  #13  
carpediemracing 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tariffville, CT
Posts: 15,173

Bikes: Tsunami Bikes

Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 297 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 16 Posts
OP: part of the problem may be what you consider to be "close". If your "close" is not another rider's "close", they may think you're braking too much. If you're comfortable at 5 feet off a wheel, and the guy behind you wants to be within 1 foot, then the rider behind may yell at you to close the gap.

For example, if I'm behind someone that is leaving, say, a 10 foot gap to the next rider, I know that the guy in front of me is working way harder than necessary. I typically won't yell to close the gap (I used to, but not anymore), but I'll probably go around him. I know that all that extra work will tire out the guy and, unless he's way stronger than his riding skills indicate, he'll get shelled. At the best he'll struggle in as pack fodder.

If it's a rider I know, and I know the rider normally rides closer, I'll think about giving him a light shove to help him close the gap. I won't do this to a rider I don't know or don't trust.

For tailgunning (which I do frequently), check out some of the helmet cam clips I've put up. In particular check out Somerville and Harlem. I had the hardest times there, and I really tailgunned. Like almost tailgunned myself off the back.

Harlem:

Somerville:

Note that the camera makes people look further away than they really are. The gaps are smaller than they appear.

cdr
carpediemracing is offline  
Old 07-30-10, 07:46 AM
  #14  
lovestoride
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ohio
Posts: 453
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jmsmke View Post
Correct...My post was intended for the OP, not lovestoride



"More of"? so your not quite sure what cat the race was?
it is like a practice race series so cat 5's can race wiht any group. so there are a few but not many
lovestoride is offline  
Old 07-30-10, 08:05 AM
  #15  
Creatre
These Guys Eat Oreos
 
Creatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Superior, CO
Posts: 3,432

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
OP: part of the problem may be what you consider to be "close". If your "close" is not another rider's "close", they may think you're braking too much. If you're comfortable at 5 feet off a wheel, and the guy behind you wants to be within 1 foot, then the rider behind may yell at you to close the gap.

For example, if I'm behind someone that is leaving, say, a 10 foot gap to the next rider, I know that the guy in front of me is working way harder than necessary. I typically won't yell to close the gap (I used to, but not anymore), but I'll probably go around him. I know that all that extra work will tire out the guy and, unless he's way stronger than his riding skills indicate, he'll get shelled. At the best he'll struggle in as pack fodder.

If it's a rider I know, and I know the rider normally rides closer, I'll think about giving him a light shove to help him close the gap. I won't do this to a rider I don't know or don't trust.

For tailgunning (which I do frequently), check out some of the helmet cam clips I've put up. In particular check out Somerville and Harlem. I had the hardest times there, and I really tailgunned. Like almost tailgunned myself off the back.

Harlem:

Somerville:

Note that the camera makes people look further away than they really are. The gaps are smaller than they appear.

cdr
Cool videos, your commentary is humorous.
Creatre is offline  
Old 08-04-10, 04:49 AM
  #16  
Basil Moss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 1,051

Bikes: Specialized Allez (2007)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lovestoride View Post
sorry was not clear enough. i ment like really using the brakes front and rear and a good amount of pressure. i knew that the turns could be taken at very high speeds. i had an off day and was shot out the back and had to tt it to get back to the group and i did not need to brake once during the entire solo effort. it was really only surprising because the people at the ride/race are experienced racers but o well nothing bad happened next time im just going to stay right at the front.
If your cornering and power allows you to solo back to the bunch, why aren't you riding at the front dictating the pace? Then you can really nail the corners and scare all the people behind you.
Basil Moss is offline  
Old 08-04-10, 06:51 AM
  #17  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Basil Moss View Post
If your cornering and power allows you to solo back to the bunch, why aren't you riding at the front dictating the pace? Then you can really nail the corners and scare all the people behind you.
unless you're working to set up a team mate, i cant think of any good reason to ride on the front and dictate pace.
MDcatV is offline  
Old 08-04-10, 08:51 PM
  #18  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MDcatV View Post
unless you're working to set up a team mate, i cant think of any good reason to ride on the front and dictate pace.
Training race. You want a good hard workout and value that over a win. Take a flyer. You'll never know what it takes to lap the field unless you try.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-05-10, 07:23 AM
  #19  
Grumpy McTrumpy
gmt
 
Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Binghamton, NY
Posts: 12,509
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
hmmm

in the toughest 40+ crits that I have done, the hammerheads go to the front and set a pace that fractures the field. When successful, they end up in a "breakaway" that includes several of the strongest guys without any attacks.
Grumpy McTrumpy is offline  
Old 08-05-10, 10:33 AM
  #20  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
Training race. You want a good hard workout and value that over a win. Take a flyer. You'll never know what it takes to lap the field unless you try.
was someone talking about a training race? i dont think noobs should go to a training race to get a hard workout. hard workouts and group rides are for that. training races are to train in a racing environment and should be used to evaluate different ways to win and find out successful means to that end. dictating pace in my mind = pulling the field around. that's a bad habit to form.

Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
hmmm

in the toughest 40+ crits that I have done, the hammerheads go to the front and set a pace that fractures the field. When successful, they end up in a "breakaway" that includes several of the strongest guys without any attacks.
apples/oranges. these guys arent noobs like the posters in this thread, they know what they're doing will trim the fat and increase odds of winning. a noob pulling the field around, i.e. what i interpreted dictating pace to mean in the context of this discussion, is as i wrote above, a bad thing.
MDcatV is offline  
Old 08-05-10, 04:04 PM
  #21  
shovelhd
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 15,669

Bikes: Yes

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There's no better way to train for a race than to race. Just curious, MDCatV, have you ever lapped the field?

OP, I think you need to relax a bit, move up in the field more. Group rides as MDCatV says are a good way to build your group riding skill at pace.
shovelhd is offline  
Old 08-06-10, 06:52 AM
  #22  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
There's no better way to train for a race than to race. Just curious, MDCatV, have you ever lapped the field?

OP, I think you need to relax a bit, move up in the field more. Group rides as MDCatV says are a good way to build your group riding skill at pace.
yes
MDcatV is offline  
Old 08-06-10, 07:07 AM
  #23  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,129

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
Braking in last night's 3/4 race was really annoying. I was on 3rd wheel a couple times going through the tighter corners on the course, and the guys at the front were always hitting their brakes. Drove me freaking crazy. I was able to carry speed and come around on the outside then just surf back in, but it would have been nice to have a bit more speed coming out of the corner.
waterrockets is offline  
Old 08-06-10, 07:17 AM
  #24  
MDcatV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,840
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post
Braking in last night's 3/4 race was really annoying. I was on 3rd wheel a couple times going through the tighter corners on the course, and the guys at the front were always hitting their brakes. Drove me freaking crazy. I was able to carry speed and come around on the outside then just surf back in, but it would have been nice to have a bit more speed coming out of the corner.
that's one reason i will never downgrade. despite the ass kickings i've been taking all year
MDcatV is offline  
Old 08-06-10, 07:51 AM
  #25  
waterrockets 
Making a kilometer blurry
 
waterrockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin (near TX)
Posts: 26,129

Bikes: rkwaki's porn collection

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 4 Posts
Yeah, I should probably just do the 123 race, but it didn't fit my schedule last night.
waterrockets is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.